Melkizedeq Attack 6
Here it is: Daniel Hall’s Melkizedek objections – Daniel Hall is a Rico Cortes follower who despite all the good he has supports the Levitical Priesthood mindset – regardless of the fact that it is infested with Orthodox & Rabbinic (thus popular Messianic) thought who reject Yahshua and His Gen.49:10 restoration.
**Dr.Dave answers under each numbered issue
++ Daniel Hall objections
1++All Torah stands.
**Great – Spoken like a non-discript barrel chested defender of the party line; the Messianic, HR, Netzarim, Jewish (et. al) assumption ie the belief – I mean the faith.
Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10? – How ’bout Ex.32 or Num.3:12 & Num.8:15-17 not to mention Jos.5:5 – These all demonstrate ‘change’ and the reason for ‘change’ much as Ezk.20:10-25 tells it and Heb.7:11-12 evidences
The point to understand is Gen.49:10 – It is not a ‘change’ of Torah; to enact the ‘change’ in Torah; that has always been right there in Torah.
2++(Daniel Hall) Levi’s priesthood is guaranteed by Messiahs blood in the “new covenant”
Read Jer 33:14-21
**Do you really want to go there? OK – If as you would like to point out “David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel” & “Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.”
The operative words in both cases is ‘never’ ie ‘continually’ ie ‘no lapse’
Where are they!!!? Any of them – 1st off; there was no David descendant on the throne even in Yahshua’s time of Roman occupation and even before that going back to the Babylonian Captivity – That’s why Yahshua said ‘your house is left to you desolate’ (Mt 23:38) – As in ‘not functional’ – Not made desolate ; but already was – A pre-existing condition. Flash – Only a Kingdom has a King – A House does NOT! – Hint; Yahshua understood that point by His own decree – Go figure. Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38.
2Nd The Pharisees (and modern Rabbis) even in Yahshua’s time going back to the Babylonian Captivity had usurped the from Torah Levitical priest position. Notice – ‘never’ ie ‘continually’ would extend till today; Right? Aside from the non-existent Lev. Priests today usurped by Rabbis – Where is the Lev. High Priest? This ought to simple to answer, after all by Torah there can only be 1 – Who is it? Or the 1 before that, Or the 1 before that, etc.? – you get the idea – Your position is insurmountably baseless.
Then there’s the ‘Not Like’ verbiage of Jer 31:31-33 – That clearly again speaks of ‘change’
3++There are 4 groups of people in the “new covenant” sealed by Messiah’s blood in the Heavenly Temple FOREVER.
1)House of Judah aka Jews and gentiles who join to them by faith
2)House of Israel aka lost sheep and gentiles who join to them by faith
3)House of David
4)House of Levi
The priesthood on earth is Levi’s Olam (forever) All the Laws regarding Temple service by Levi will stand Olam
** 1st off the House of David is part of the House of Judah, the partial House (ie Tribe) of Levi (post Assyrian Captivity) even prior to the Babylonian Captivity was also part of the House of Judah containing; Judah, Benjamin, & a partial Tribe of Levi.
Again you insist that @ All the Laws regarding Temple service by Levi will stand Olam
Where is it? Where are they?
You must not know what ‘olam’ can mean – Do the research; ‘olam’ neither only or always means our concept of ‘forever’, it more correctly means ‘to a point out of mind’.
4++ read Eze 40 to end of the book.
** Yes; Please do closely read Ezk.40 to Ezk.48 to the end of the book – and look closely this is to all Israel not just the Jews and there is a division of regular Lev. Priest to the people (all Israel) and the sons of Zadok (which are sons of Aaron – which are still Levites) ministering to Yah – Did you catch that ‘to Yah’ not with Yah.
And who will pull that together Yahweh or a bunch of Torah hijacking illegal Rabbis?
Besides that read;
And there are other anomalies – http://www.hope-of-israel.org/ezekielstemple.html
5++Pinchas was given the priesthood by covenant Forever through out his generations. Num 25:12-13
**Again do the study of ‘olam’ and with that the study of ‘dowr – generations’
6++Whatever the book of Hebrews is speaking about it cannot contradict Torah Num 25:12-13 Prophets Eze multiple chaptets 40-48 Jer 33
** Sorry but this does Not make cognitive cohesive lucid sense & is a puzzlement of you asserting to know Bible but in effect admitting you do not fully comprehend what the Book of Hebrews is saying
7++If Hebrews does contradict these books then we have no option but to disregard Hebrews!
** And most do exactly that – then Paul – then the NT and Yahshua – Bad Choice! Bad Advise! Lousy ethic to defend, table & teach! Shows lazy scholarship!
8++Or – Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah or possible manipulation of the text by “christian” translators to pass on their “dogma” to their readers
** What??? Bingo!!! @ “Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah or … manipulation of the text by “christian” (not to mention Yahshua rejecting Jews inspiring Messianic) translators to pass on their “dogma” to their readers” – And that’s the point you (like traditional Jews) have no understanding of the division of Laws, Priesthoods or Covenants from Torah – You insist that nothing has changed – You deny the change back to the Melkizedeq Priesthood – You admit to a lack of understanding – Yet you assert & project as if you do – but not only that you defend against this knowledge (ergo this exercise) and seek to project that to others.
9++ Messiah said “nothing can change in Torah or the prophets”
** Now we have come full circle – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” ie ‘change’ – See 1
10++The FALSE WITNESSES found in Acts 6:13-15 made up this doctrine!
** These FALSE WITNESSES (like you) were not telling the whole story – were not validating the true & valid parts of Torah that did not support their position. This is FALSE WITNESS also – See any reflection yet?
Again – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” not to mention Acts 15:10 – Which supports Ezk.20:10-25, 2Cor.3:11, Heb.7:11-12, etc. ie ‘change’ – See 1
11++ All the elders if the 1st century “church” advised Paul to do a Nazirite vow to prove he Paul kept Torah. The Nazirite vow process can be found in Num 6 Every Levitical sacrifice is part of this vow Including Sin sacrifice! This vow is carried out in the Temple under the jurisdiction of the Levitical Priesthood!
** @ “Every Levitical sacrifice is part of this vow” this statement is pure error. Then you have a problem – You say @ “This vow is carried out in the Temple under the jurisdiction of the Levitical Priesthood!”
1st The Temple post Babylonian captivity this was ruled by the Pharisees – a clear Torah break – 2nd this issue with Paul and the Nazirite vow was after Yahshua’s crucifixion which torn the vail signifying an end to that Levitical system. Then read about the anomalies concerning 40yrs and the Temple
12++Paul agreed to this plan formulated by ALL THE ELDERS
Acts 21:17-24 Not once in all the sworn court testimony Paul made under oath in YHVH’s name do we ever see Paul say I taught Messiah did away with the Levitical priesthood and changed the customs Moshe gave us therefore making the physical Temple null and void.
** Act 18:18 Paul had taken a vow – Acts 21:17-24 shows Paul ending that vow by Num.6 the only Torah way possible – @ “The Nazirite vow (‘exit’) process can be found in Num 6” Moral? Do not take such a vow – The thing to remember Paul was at the transition cutting edge. He said – 1Cor 9:21-22 – He also circumcised Timothy – WHY? Because of the Jews that were in that quarter. – ie to gain audience with Jews that would not hear it any other way not anything else.
Concerning ‘the sworn court testimony’ Paul is more shrewd in his defense – he simply attests to Torah keeping which includes ‘change’ (2Cor.3:11/Heb.7:12 – Gen.49:10) – Whether they (or you) realize it or not
13++I challenge you to read the texts
**I challenge you to read the texts
14++I will give a few examples from many. Read from Acts 21 to end of book. Paul affirms the Levitical priesthood as still being the rulers of Israel Acts 23:2-5
** Your delusional – Paul does not validate the Levitical priesthood as still being the ‘rulers’ of Israel – Where is that verbiage? That is completely against Torah – By Gen.49:10 Judah was to rule – but even that was not happening under Roman occupation.
15++Paul says the ONLY reason he is on trial is because of teaching “resurrection” (of Messiah) Acts 23:6
** Your delusional – Reading in what is not there Paul stealthfully divides his accusers BUT never says ‘ONLY’ which you highlight as so – biblically it is Not there.
16++Paul said he went up to Jerusalem to “worship” and tells us what two religious venues this “worship” he performed took place in “The TEMPLE” and in “synagogues” ….the central focus of Temple worship is sacrifice!
** This is not Worshiping the Temple – But – Worshiping ‘in’ the Temple – This was a transition time – Even yet we are to go to the Highways & Byways – What do you think that means? – Read Acts 18:4-6
17++Paul believes EVERYTHING in Torah and the prophets Acts 24:14-15
** And again we have come full circle; yet again – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” ie ‘change’ How ’bout Ex.32 or Num.3:12 & Num.8:15-17 not to mention Jos.5:5 – These all demonstrate ‘change’ and the reason for ‘change’ much as Ezk.20:10-25 tells it and Heb.7:11-12 evidences – I will speak for myself – I believe Paul did state the truth – but would let them believe what they wanted – such as you and others do now. See 1
18++As James tells us belief is actions. Paul acted out Torah which includes Levi’s priesthood and all physical Temple services.
** Paul also exampled Torah at Heb.7 which tells us that the Melkizedeq Priesthood was 1st and was greater – Look it up – do the study (Acts 17:11)
19++Again Paul says the only thing he taught was resurrection Act 24:15;20-21
** Oh really? Square that with Acts, Rom., Eph., Gal., Cor., Heb., Tim. & etc.
20++Paul says he has not sinned against the Law of the Jews …NOR AGAINST THE TEMPLE ….Acts 25:8
** No; again you are delusional reading in what you want to see – it says Act 25:8 ‘While he answered for himself,’ … – yet not against any of these
21++If Paul understood Hebrews to be saying what this article says it is saying then he (Paul) is a liar and a hypocrite and if ALL THE ELDERS of the 1st century understood Hebrews to be saying what this article says then they are ALL LIARS AND HYPOCRITES!!!! and that is a major problem because that means all their writings are null and void and should be removed and burnt!
** “this article” that you reference but do not identify ??? – There you go again – “** Bingo!!! @ “Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah” – And that’s the point you have no understanding of the division of Laws, Priesthoods or Covenants from Torah – You insist that nothing has changed – You deny the change back to the Melkizedeq Priesthood – You admit to a lack of understanding – Yet you assert & project as if you do – but not only that you defend against this knowledge (ergo this exercise) and seek to project that to others?” See 8
22++Or – Like Peter warned those who do not understand Torah will twist Pauls writings and the rest of Scripture to their own destruction! I believe this to be the case.
** Now you even twist what the text says – with the word twist still stuck in your mouth – but even so “ those who do not understand Torah” – **There you go again – “** Bingo!!! @ “Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah” quote you unquote – And that’s the point you have no understanding of the division of Laws, Priesthoods or Covenants from Torah – You insist that nothing has changed – You deny the change back to the Melkizedeq Priesthood – You admit to a lack of understanding – Yet you assert & project as if you do – but not only that you defend against this knowledge (ergo this exercise) and seek to project that to others.” See 8
23++You are correct sacrifice cannot be carried out today because the Temple does not stand. However. Messiah’s death did not bring the Levitical priesthood to a end just as Torah and all its “regulations” have not come to a end and neither are they changed. We simply cannot perform them until the Temple is built and the Torah once again becomes the constitution and legal code of Israel. None the Torah fir this world is “changed” or can EVER be changed.
** “None the Torah fir this world is “changed” or can EVER be changed.” – 1st off this sentence does not make complete sense – But even so – what is this?;
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, *until* Shiloh come
Ex 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may *consume* them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Num 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel *instead* of all the firstborn
Jos 5:2 At that time YHWH said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the *second* time.
Jos 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had *not circumcised*. (hint this ID’s the 40yr wandering)
This all evidences and demonstrates a ‘change of/in/to’ Torah
You say – @”We simply cannot perform them until the Temple is built”
And where is this proviso in Torah – Hmm?
24++David’s covenant of the kingship over Israel is not changed it is in effect it is just not practiced.
** That my friend is the flimflam of double-speak – either forever is unbroken forever or its not!
Again – 1st off; there was no David descendant on the throne even in Yahshua’s time of Roman occupation and even before that going back to the Babylonian Captivity – That’s why Yahshua said ‘your house is left to you desolate’ (Mt 23:38) – As in ‘not functional’ – Not made desolate ; but already was. Only a Kingdom has a King – A House does NOT! – Hint; Yahshua understood that by His own decree. This would include the defunct Levitical usurped Priesthood. Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38.
25++When the Temple was destroyed in Daniels day the neither David’s covenant not the covenant of Levi changed both were in effect and were reinstated as soon as Israel had Torah as its constitution.
** Hellooo – Neither have been reinstated – “as soon as Israel” What? Re-became an autonomous Kingdom??? That has never happened! Even so; You’re confusing the Jews as being Israel – Most of Israel’s 12 Tribes are still lost even today – That’s why the Jews still pray prayer #10 of the Amidah – Besides that Gen.49:10 had not happened in Daniels day – They were still under Torah Levitical primacy which they still were not following – even to this day.
26++Every inheritance mentioned in Torah is in effect.
** Every inheritance? This is not so. The Melkizedeq Priesthood was to go to the 1st born of all tribes; “if” they kept the Covenant – Read Ex.32; they did not – Then read Num.3:12 – Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38.
And – they broke Gen.17 Melkizedeq Circumcision with the Gold Calf (Ex.32/Rom.2:29) never practiced again for the rest of Torah (Jos.5:5) – But then they got Jos.5:2 a 2nd Levitical Circumcision & what does Heb.7:11 say?
27++The land promise/covenant is in effect Gaza and the west bank are ours and much more land no matter the fact that other occupy this land at this moment.
** Well it had to happen; we finally reached a point of relative agreement
28++ even Judah though he believes he is the only owner because we were dispersed (just as levitical priesthood is) he is wrong and when Messiah comes back and “establishes” Torah as constitution all us lost children will have what belings to us.
** @ “…we were dispersed (just as levitical priesthood is)…” – Well well you finally admit that there was/is a lapse – I thot you said ‘forever/continually’ that my friend means no break without end – So which is it – You can’t have it both ways!
29++ Right after we are told that Messiah is a Priest in the order of Melchizedek Heb 7:11-28
** This has happened present tense already – Read Heb 7:12; 21, 1Ptr.2:9, etc.
30++Heb 8:1-7 Tells us in present tense that there are priests offering sacrifice in accordance/obedience to/under the authority of Torah at that time AFTER Messiahs death.
Vs 4 then tells us though Messiah is a Priest or High Priest of the Melchizedek order He CANNOT officiate on earth.
because? Their are priests who offer sacrifices according to The Law/Torah.
** Your dysfunction is showing again – Now go read Heb 8:6 thru 10 – ‘But now’ … this pertains to the New Covenant – that relates to Jer.31:31-33 enacted by Yahshua at Lk.22:20
31++Messiah officiates in the Heavenly Temple
** How quick you forget the model prayer – ‘on earth as it is in …’ -where? And Mk.1:15 And saying (Yahshua v:14), The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of Yah is at hand …
32++Levi officiates Olam in the earthly
** Again – do the study of ‘olawm’ Do the research; ‘olam’ neither only or always means our concept of ‘forever’, it more correctly means ‘to a point out of mind’. – Flash – Yahweh is not limited to your concepts and your preconceived ideas (Prv.25:2) – See 3
33++Messiah made this covenant with Levi by His own blood Jer 33:14-22 He cannot and will not break His own Word.
** Did you forget? Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall **execute judgment and righteousness in the land**.
Yahshua said ‘your house is left to you desolate’ (Mt 23:38) – As in ‘not functional’ – Not made desolate ; but already was. Only a Kingdom has a King – A House does NOT! – Hint; Yahshua understood that by His own decree. This would include the defunct Levitical usurped Priesthood. Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38. – See 24
34++That is the reason not once do you see Messiah take over Temple duty before or after His resurrection.
** Really? The reason Yahshua Messiah did not take over Temple duty – Is the same reason the Essenes went to Qumran – The temple duty and those that had usurped the legitimate Levitical Priesthood were corrupt.
35++ Nothing of Torah is changed.
** Repetition will never make a lie a truth – neither will ignoring the details of the truth make you honest.
Again we have come full circle; yet again – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” ie ‘change’ How ’bout Ex.32 or Num.3:12 & Num.8:15-17 not to mention Jos.5:5 – These all demonstrate ‘change’ and the reason for ‘change’ much as Ezk.20:10-25 tells it and Heb.7:11-12 evidences. See 1
36++ The death penalty for adultery stands even though we do not and cannot carry this instruction out until……the Torah is the constitution and law code of Israel then and only then will stoning for adultery be carried out. In the heavenly court this “law” still stands and anyone who carries out this sin will receive their due punishment when Messiah returns (the hail stoning will be the punishment)
** Marriage is a Melkizedeq issue – It has the 4 points of a Melkizedeq Covenant 1] Proposal, 2] Agreement, 3] Blood Ratification & 4] A Covenant Confirming meal – (aka – the reception)
@ “…then and only then…” When is that? You obviously have something in mind but you do not spell it out – But leave everyone hanging – Is it because you are unclear on the concept yourself?
Then you speak of “In the heavenly court” – There is no marriage in Heaven (Mk.12:25)
Even so Yahshua showed mercy to the 1 caught in adultery (John 8:4-11). The same mercy you want to be shown concerning your sins that deserve death. Remember the sand writing / without sin thing?
37++This Law is not practiced on earth but it is binding and still in effect.
** You do make a valid point – BUT – only as it relates to Marriage originally being Melkizedeq law
38++Just as is the “laws” regarding Levi and his priesthood.
** 1st off the actual man ‘Levi’ never knew his descendants would have a Priesthood (Gen.49:5), Then You are trying to marry apples and oranges – Heb.7:11 – the “laws” regarding the Plan ‘B’ Levitical priesthood came under the Levitical priesthood law after breaking the Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Covenant (Ex.32/Num.3:12) and were ‘not good’ (Ezk.20:25).
39++No person alive today who is not of Levi can receive a “tithe” or “first fruit” etc etc and there is zero evidence in Scripture including 1st century writings of anyone besides levi being legally allowed to receive these commanded gifts.
**Then what do you make of Paul a Benjamite gathering and taking proceeds to Jerusalem believers most who were Not Levites or Peter a Jew concerning Ananias & Sapphira or Act 4:36 Joses a Levite laying money down a the Apostles feet most of whom were Jews – ??? , etc.
40++Anyone not of levi who then accepts these gifts knowing this information commits a act of rebellion and will receive the due punishment on Messiah’s return.
** That’s a bold absolute statement – The problem with absolute statements is they are rarely absolute. There may be those who lived and died under the Levitical priesthood who will receive what you say for that reason – But – You forget (or more correctly – refuse) the Melkizedeq Priesthood standing we as believers in Yahshua all are called to (1Ptr.2:9/Heb.7:12/Rev.1:6) –
41++Just Davids kingdom and throne are not with us today no body from any other blood line may legally sit on his throne and anyone who does so will face YHVH’s judgement.
** Again a bit unintelligible – So now you admit “David’s kingdom and throne are not with us today” – You must have gotten tired – We tend to tell the truth when that happens – don’t ya love it? – I seem to remember you trying to wrench the point of ‘olawm’ – forever/continual – (means without lapse) – Remember – So which is it?
42++David’s promise/covenant is along side Levi’s and are bond together in Scripture and are both binding and in effect today regardless wether the Palace and the throne or the Temple and the altar stand at this point in time.
** Again a bit unintelligible – Even so; concerning ‘David’s promise/covenant is along side Levi’s and are bond together’ …
See 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, 17, 21, 22, 24, 25, 32, 33, 35, 41
43++Torah is timeless.
**Strictly speaking; this is a correct statement. However – It may feel real good to make that statement – But to do so necessarily includes Gen.49:10 – knowing and agreeing with what is contained and evidenced in and about Torah – to do anything else and demand it to be so; is just plain ignorant.
Torah includes the awareness of ‘change’ of a then coming Messiah Gen.49:10. Torah includes the awareness of a #1 Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Priesthood ‘changed’ to a #2 Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood because of Melkizedeq Covenant break Ex.32/Num.3:12. Torah includes the awareness of un-Circumcision because of the same Melkizedeq Covenant break of Ex.32/Num.3:12-Jos.5:5. And many other particulars. Torah also allows for the ‘change’ back to the original #1 Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Priesthood (Heb.7:12) thru Yahshua (Gen.49:10) our Melkizedeq High Priest (Ps.110:1-4/Heb.7:11-21).
It would benefit you and others to study ‘Olam’ translated ‘forever’ and ‘Dowr’ translated ‘generations’. You can start with;
And remember Acts 17:11 – Search the Scriptures daily to see if these things are so. For; Repetition will never make a lie a truth – neither will ignoring the details of the truth make you honest.
++Daniel Hall – Also has an exception to my saying ‘A Kingdom has a King a House does not’ – Saying – “Where is that?”
**Regarding your quip about the difference between Kingdom and House – Please do carefully read 1Kgs.9:4-7 and know that this is YHWH speaking.
Oh and Daniel – I probably shouldn’t help you – BUT – you forgot to bring up Jer 33:20 (???) an oversight?
Jer 33:20 Thus saith YHWH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; …Jer 33:21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
What most do not factor in is the proviso of 1Kgs 9:5-8 compared to the confirmation of Mt 23:38 – AND – the whole crucifixion event that included the Sun going dark at high noon – the verbiage is – If **ye** can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, … That never precludes YHWH doing so Himself for a dedicated purpose – Along with the Temple veil torn in two showing an end to the already defunct Levitical Priesthood just like the so called High Priest tearing his vestment showing the same ineligibility. (Mt 26:65, Mt 27:51, Mk 14:63, Mk 15:38, Lk 23:45)
Please do follow Acts 17:11 – Follow Yah’s Truth (Prv.25:2)