Posted Elsewhere

Posted Elsewhere

Statements about Paul by Prominent Theologians and Bible Scholars.docx

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Because of I/N trickery I will post

Statements about Paul by Prominent Theologians and Bible Scholars

The fact that Paul spread his own version of Christianity independent of Yeshua’ teachings has been well known for centuries. Only the Church doesn’t agree to that. Paulianity displays very little of the teachings of the humble Jewish Rabbi, Yeshua, and adds much that Yeshua would have found appalling.

Below are quotations from the writings of renowned theologians and other scholars. Most were taken from Rev. Abba Nazaria’s very informative article, “YAHOWSHUA OR PAUL?” (http://www.essene.org/Yahowshua_or_Paul.htm).

In Christ or Paul?, by Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore:

“Let the reader contrast the true Christian standard with that of Paul and he will see the terrible betrayal of all that the Master taught. . . . For the surest way to betray a great Teacher is to misrepresent his message. . . . That is what Paul and his followers did, and because the Church has followed Paul in his error it has failed lamentably to redeem the world. . . . The teachings given by the blessed Master Christ, which the disciples John and Peter and James, the brother of the Master, tried in vain to defend and preserve intact were as utterly opposed to the Pauline Gospel as the light is opposed to the darkness.”

The great theologian Soren Kierkegaard, in The Journals:

“In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Atoner. What Martin Luther, in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ. Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down, making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ”

The brilliant theologian Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul:

“True Christianity, which will last forever, comes from the gospel words of Christ not from the epistles of Paul. The writings of Paul have been a danger and a hidden rock, the causes of the principal defects of Christian theology.”

Will Durant, in his Caesar and Christ:

“Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of Christ. . . . Through these interpretations Paul could neglect the actual life and sayings of Jesus, which he had not directly known. . . . Paul replaced conduct with creed as the test of virtue. It was a tragic change.”

Robert Frost, winner of the Pulitzer prize for poetry in 1924,1931,1937 and 1943, in his “A Masque of Mercy”:

“Paul he’s in the Bible too. He is the fellow who theologized Christ almost out of Christianity. Look out for him.”

James Baldwin, the most noted black American author of this century, in his book The Fire Next Time:

“The real architect of the Christian church was not the disreputable, sunbaked Hebrew (Jesus Christ) who gave it its name but rather the mercilessly fanatical and self-righteous Paul.”

Martin Buber, the most respected Jewish philosopher of this century, in Two Types of Faith:

“The Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount is completely opposed to Paul.”

The famous mystic, poet and author, Kahlil Gibran, in Jesus the Son of Man:

“This Paul is indeed a strange man. His soul is not the soul of a free man. He speaks not of Jesus nor does he repeat His Words. He would strike with his own hammer upon the anvil in the Name of One whom he does not know.”

The famous theologian, Helmut Koester, in his The Theological Aspects of Primitive Christian Heresy:

“Paul himself stands in the twilight zone of heresy. In reading Paul, one immediately encounters a major difficulty. Whatever Jesus had preached did not become the content of the missionary proclamation of Paul. . . . Sayings of Jesus do not play a role in Paul ‘s understanding of the event of salvation. . . . Paul did not care at all what Jesus had said. . . . Had Paul been completely successful very little of the sayings of Jesus would have survived.”

Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and author of the Declaration of Independence in his “Letter to William Short”:

“Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.”

Renowned English philosopher Jeremy Bentham, in his Not Paul But Jesus:

“It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere.”

The eminent theologian Ferdinand Christian Baur, in his Church History of the First Three Centuries:

“What kind of authority can there be for an ‘apostle’ who, unlike the other apostles, had never been prepared for the apostolic office in Jesus’ own school but had only later dared to claim the apostolic office on the basis on his own authority? The only question comes to be how the apostle Paul appears in his Epistles to be so indifferent to the historical facts of the life of Jesus. . . . He bears himself but little like a disciple who has received the doctrines and the principles which he preaches from the Master whose name he bears.”

The great Mahatma Gandhi, the prophet of nonviolence who won freedom from England for India in an essay titled “Discussion on Fellowship”:

“I draw a great distinction between the Sermon on the Mount of Jesus and the Letters of Paul. Paul’s Letters are a graft on Christ’s teachings, Paul’s own gloss apart from Christ’s own experience.”

Carl Jung, the famous Swiss psychiatrist, in his essay “A Psychological Approach to Dogma”:

“Saul’s [Paul’s name before his conversion] fanatical resistance to Christianity. . . . was never entirely overcome. It is frankly disappointing to see how Paul hardly ever allows the real Jesus of Nazareth to get a word in.”

George Bernard Shaw, winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1925; in his Androcles and the Lion:

“There is not one word of Pauline Christianity in the characteristic utterances of Jesus. . . . There has really never been a more monstrous imposition perpetrated than the imposition of Paul’s soul upon the soul of Jesus. . . . It is now easy to understand how the Christianity of Jesus. . . . was suppressed by the police and the Church, while Paulinism overran the whole western civilized world, which was at that time the Roman Empire, and was adopted by it as its official faith.”

Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize, called “one of the greatest Christians of his time,” philosopher, physician, musician, clergyman, missionary, and theologian in his The Quest for the Historical Jesus and his Mysticism of Paul:

“Paul. . . . did not desire to know Christ. . . . Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded. . . . What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?. . . . The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority. . . . The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it.”

William Wrede, in his excellent book, Paul:

“The oblivious contradictions in the three accounts given by Paul in regard to his conversion are enough to arouse distrust. . . . The moral majesty of Jesus, his purity and piety, his ministry among his people, his manner as a prophet, the whole concrete ethical-religious content of his earthly life, signifies for Paul’s Christology nothing whatever. . . . The name ‘disciple of Jesus’ has little applicability to Paul. . . . Jesus or Paul: this alternative characterizes, at least in part, the religious and theological warfare of the present day”

Rudolf Bultman, one of the most respected theologians of this century, in his Significance of the Historical Jesus for the Theology of Paul:

“It is most obvious that Paul does not appeal to the words of the Lord in support of his. . . . views. when the essentially Pauline conceptions are considered, it is clear that Paul is not dependent on Jesus. Jesus’ teaching is — to all intents and purposes — irrelevant for Paul.”

Walter Bauer, another eminent theologian, in his Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity:

“If one may be allowed to speak rather pointedly the Apostle Paul was the only Arch-Heretic known to the apostolic age.”

H.L. Mencken, called one of the most influential American writers of the first half of the 20th century, in his Notes on Democracy:

“Is it argued by any rational man that the debased Christianity cherished by the mob in all the Christian countries of today, has any colourable likeness to the body of ideas preached by Christ?

“The plain fact is that this bogus Christianity has no more relation to the system of Christ than it has to Aristotle. It is the invention of Paul and his attendant rabble-rousers–a body of men exactly comparable to the corps of evangelical pastors of today, which is to say, a body devoid of sense and lamentably indifferent to common honesty. The mob, having heard Christ, turned against Him. His theological ideas were too logical and plausible for it, and His ethical ideas were enormously too austere. What it yearned for was the old comfortable balderdash under a new and gaudy name, and that is prescisely what Paul offered it. He borrowed from all the wandering dervishes and body-snatchers of Asia Minor, and flavoured the stew with remnants of Greek demonology. The result was a code of doctrines so discordant and so nonsensical that no two men since, examining it at length, have ever agreed upon its prescise meaning. Paul remains the arch theologian of the mob. His turgid and witless metaphysics make Christianity bearable to men who would otherwise be repelled by Christ’s simple and magnificent reduction of the duties of man to the duties of a gentle-man.”

My Answer

This is pathetic – There is not 1 mention of a for instance – Prominent (Sunday) Theologians and (Even non-believer) Bible Scholars (?) as well as Jews and Rabbis (which you are in total deferring to) studied tho they are, are notoriously wrong on an ongoing routine basis.

Because of your own lack of due diligence you have fallen into the trap you now set for others.

What Apostle do you like? – Peter?

2Ptr 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved **brother Paul** also ++according to the wisdom given unto him++ hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which ++they that are unlearned and unstable wrest++, **as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction**.

Here’s your reward for non-study

2Ths 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause Yah shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Choose Wisely

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2 thoughts on “Posted Elsewhere

  1. From elsewhere

    Alright Tom – Even tho your request is incomplete & incoherent I will not let this pass

    Thomas L. Cossette @
    even paul’s writings are valueble for to apply the exersise of
    critial thinking and deliberation to them in doeing he is found out
    to be a lier and deciever

    @Drdave Perry see if you an find one accurate from the tanakh done by Paul then lets talk how about finding five accurate quotes……other than Paul quoting this is my body see if you can find another quote from Yeshua done by Paul feel free to use the book of Hebrews in your search.

    Please excuse the untouched KJV

    Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    Mt 1:6,16; Lu 1:32; Joh 1:14; Ac 2:30; Ga 4:4; 2Ti 2:8 – Lu 3:23-38/Mt 1:1-16

    https://bible.org/ques…/mary%E2%80%99s-lineage-one-gospels

    Yet; this is openly apparent

    Rom 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    Ps 40:9-10; **Mr 8:38; Lu 2:30-32; 24:47**; Ac 3:26; 13:26,46; Ro 2:9; 1Co 1:18; 15:2; 2Ti 1:8 – ** Yahshua’s own words

    Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
    **Hab 2:4**; Joh 3:36; Ac 3:21; Ga 3:11; Php 3:9; Heb 10:38
    Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    Jer 10:14
    Ro 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    De 4:16; Ps 106:20; Isa 40:18,25; Jer 2:11; Eze 8:10; Ac 17:29
    24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    Le 18:22; Ps 81:12; Ac 7:42; 1Co 6:18; Eph 4:18-19; 1Th 4:4; 2Th 2:11-12; 1Pe 4:3
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. {more: or, rather}
    Isa 44:20; Jer 10:14; 13:25; Am 2:4; 1Th 1:9; 1Jo 5:20
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Le 18:22-23; Eph 5:12; Jude 1:10
    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {to retain: or, to acknowledge} {a reprobate…: or, a mind void of judgment or, an unapproving mind}
    Eph 5:4
    29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: {without natural…: or unsociable}
    32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. {have…: or, consent with}
    Ps 50:18; Ho 7:3; Ro 2:2; 6:21

    Rom 2:1 ¶ Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
    2Sa 12:5-7; Mt 7:1-2; Joh 8:9; Ro 1:20

    Ro 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
    Ex 34:6; Isa 30:18; Ro 3:25; 9:23; Eph 1:7; 2:4,7; 2Pe 3:9,15
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    De 32:34; Jas 5:3
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    Job 34:11; Ps 62:12; Pr 24:12; Jer 17:10; 32:19; Mt 16:27; Ro 14:12; 1Co 3:8; 2Co 5:10; Re 2:23; 20:12; 22:12
    Ro 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    Job 24:13; Ro 1:18; 2Th 1:8
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; {Gentile: Gr. Greek}
    Am 3:2; Lu 12:47-48; 1Pe 4:17

    1 of 2
    9 hrs · Edited · Like
    Drdave Perry 2 of 2

    Ro 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    De 10:17; 2Ch 19:7; Job 34:19; Ac 10:34; Ga 2:6; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1Pe 1:17
    Ro 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    Mt 7:21; Jas 1:22-23,25; 1Jo 3:7
    Ro 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
    Isa 45:25; 48:2; Mic 3:11; Mt 3:9; Joh 8:33,41; Ro 9:4,6-7; 2Co 11:22
    18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; {approvest…: or, triest the things that differ}
    De 4:8; Ps 147:19-20; Php 1:10
    19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
    Mt 15:14; 23:16-17,19,24; Joh 9:34,40-41
    Ro 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
    Ps 50:16; Mt 23:3
    22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
    Mal 3:8
    Ro 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
    Ro 2:17
    24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
    2Sa 12:14; Isa 52:5; Eze 36:20,23
    25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

    This is exactly what we see at Ex.32 – Their circumcision was made uncircumcision

    This just from the1st 2 chapters of Romans – There is much much more

    If this is not enough

    Ro 1:17 For therein
    is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is
    written, The just shall live by faith.
    Ro 2:24 For the name
    of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is
    written.
    Ro 3:4 God forbid:
    yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That
    thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when
    thou art judged.
    Ro 3:10 As it is
    written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    Ro 4:17 ¶ (As it is
    written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom
    he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those
    things which be not as though they were. {before him: or, like unto
    him}

    Ro 8:36 As it is
    written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are
    accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
    Ro 9:13 As it is
    written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    Ro 9:33 As it is
    written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence:
    and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. {ashamed: or
    confounded}

    Ro 10:15 And how
    shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How
    beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and
    bring glad tidings of good things!
    Ro 11:8 (According
    as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes
    that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto
    this day. {slumber: or, remorse}

    Ro 11:26 And so all
    Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
    the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Ro 15:3 For even
    Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of
    them that reproached thee fell on me.
    Ro 15:9 And that the
    Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this
    cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy
    name.
    Ro 15:21 But as it
    is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they
    that have not heard shall understand.
    1Co 1:31 That,
    according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the
    Lord.
    1Co 2:9 But as it is
    written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into
    the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that
    love him.
    1Co 10:7 Neither be
    ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat
    down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    2Co 4:13 We having
    the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and
    therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
    2Co 8:15 As it is
    written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had
    gathered little had no lack.
    2Co 9:9 (As it is
    written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his
    righteousness remaineth for ever.

    *****************************
    Thomas L. Cossette – Drdave Perry Those are not quotes those are reference to topics . Sorry for not using punctuation in the last exchange. Let me try to be clearer. See if you can find actual srciptures i.e verses Paul quoted form the tanakh or from Yeshua’s words. You know like things that Paul prefaced with; for the scriptures says……. or for it is written…or for he sayeth.That was the challenge, even Al Sharpton or any partisan can referrence topics. compare the quotes side by side.
    6 hrs · Edited · Like
    Thomas L. Cossette Jackson Snyder the books you sent me came yesterday I started on NT code
    6 hrs · Like
    Thomas L. Cossette We will deal with references like Rom.1:3 later, for Yeshua is not the seed of David he is of the root of David there is a big difference He is of the seed of the Holy Spirit. to say he is the seed of David is code to other Jews that Paul did not believe in the virgin birth. i.e. the only “begotten” of the father.
    5 hrs · Edited · Like
    Drdave Perry .
    Tom says @ You know like things that Paul prefaced with; for the scriptures says……. or for it is written…or for he sayeth.

    **********
    Tom – you have just tipped your hand – YOU DID NOT READ THE POST! – How am I – how is anyone to have a meaningful exchange with anyone that does NOT read what is posted? !!!

    This is both Ignorant & Rude and a waste of my time

    And what is more you are wrong again

    @to say he is the seed of David is code to other Jews that Paul did not believe in the virgin birth

    Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Or? some supposed ‘root’ battle?

    (Repeat – for the awareness impaired)

    This just from the1st 2 chapters of Romans – There is much much more

    If this is not enough

    Ro 1:17 For therein
    is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is
    written, The just shall live by faith.
    Ro 2:24 For the name
    of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is
    written.
    Ro 3:4 God forbid:
    yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That
    thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when
    thou art judged.
    Ro 3:10 As it is
    written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    Ro 4:17 ¶ (As it is
    written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom
    he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those
    things which be not as though they were. {before him: or, like unto
    him}

    Ro 8:36 As it is
    written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are
    accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
    Ro 9:13 As it is
    written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    Ro 9:33 As it is
    written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence:
    and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. {ashamed: or
    confounded}

    Ro 10:15 And how
    shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How
    beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and
    bring glad tidings of good things!
    Ro 11:8 (According
    as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes
    that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto
    this day. {slumber: or, remorse}

    Ro 11:26 And so all
    Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
    the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Ro 15:3 For even
    Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of
    them that reproached thee fell on me.
    Ro 15:9 And that the
    Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this
    cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy
    name.
    Ro 15:21 But as it
    is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they
    that have not heard shall understand.
    1Co 1:31 That,
    according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the
    Lord.
    1Co 2:9 But as it is
    written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into
    the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that
    love him.
    1Co 10:7 Neither be
    ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat
    down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    2Co 4:13 We having
    the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and
    therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
    2Co 8:15 As it is
    written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had
    gathered little had no lack.
    2Co 9:9 (As it is
    written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his
    righteousness remaineth for ever.

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