Teaching Covenant Error

Teaching Covenant Error

++Amy and Travis Alphin, with Derek Limbaugh – Amy the apparent author of this piece conveying Kirk Carmichael’s (KC) thoughts on covenant both Amy & Derek received my request for this piece but simply did nothing and remained silent – and they continue to teach this.
** DrDave replies
************

**Mark Twain – It is easier to fool the people than to tell the people they have been fooled.
**Ram Bam – We must accept truth wherever it is found.

**This is an abbreviated 12pg article based on rebutting a 144pg document – For the original send your eMail eddress to yst@YahsSpiritofTruth.com

19++Between that and the distance we had to travel to attend this community far from us, we went back to small fellowship studies, this time with Or HaOlam, the people we currently meet with. About 4 or 5 years ago, the Holy Spirit stirred in me the sketch of “the Kingdom Message” that I delivered in the previous chapter. I tried sharing it with a handful of individuals and it was very lightly received or ignored. Then years later in one of our Bible study sessions at Or HaOlam, I realized that I knew something that would address many of the questions that were being asked. I presented the Gospel of the Kingdom again. It was greatly receieved this time!! It was empowering and people understood it. During this same time, through a miracle all its own, we met Erik and Lisa Sowers. They put me in touch with a guy named Kirk Carmichael in CA.

** Kirk Carmichael (KC) originally got this Covenant message of distinctions from me that he has now corrupted. In the beginning they seemed normal – Hungry keeping the 7th Day (Fri/Sat) Shabbat and Mow’edim – Then I had to let the ties with him lapse because he and his group began not just exploring but pushing things like; Lunar Sabbath, which questions Mow’edim calendar issues, like the count to Shavuot, Morning to Morning Day, etc. (of which he now will neither confirm or deny – you should question him and his group on these until he/they give you a direct, honest & forthright answer) – He became incensed that I would not follow in his error and became badgering, caustic and derogatory to me. I quietly just let things go silent – and now this – He has taken this Message I clued him into, twisted it into his own fashion and is now pushing it – Hence what it has become today with the ones that have swallowed his Covenant error message including this your article – That I now have to rebut.

This just in as of 3.30.15 – From: john
Date: March 30, 2015 at 8:02:32 AM PDT
To: Matthew
Subject: Fwd: Re: Phone number

“… I (Kirk Carmichael) have been the chosen messenger of YHWH to deliver you the TRUTH then it is YHWH you (Matthew Nolan) are rejecting. If you choose to continue to ignore, I will start posting (an ‘IN LOVE’ threat) critiques IN LOVE of the messages so souls can find the right answers. I will post this reply IN LOVE on our group page today (before you even have a chance to respond). This is the closing exert of a 10 page document that twists several values.”

Kirk Carmichael is still not above besmirching me while threating Matthew now also. And has deemed himself the deliverer of the Most High no less – the magnanimous loving portrayor of truth? – let alone full truth? – This man (Kirk Carmichael) is 2 faced – smiles at your face, says smooth brotherly like love style things if you go along to get along, while manipulating what ever he can leverage including the Most High. This is a threat; pure and clear. I do appeal to honest biblical reason; who would use such tactics? – It certainly would not be above the Evil one to do just that (2Cor.11:13-15).

46++And with that said, let’s begin to explain covenant. ~ 25 ~BLOOD COVENANT Our next definition for this study is Blood covenant. We are going to begin detailing the covenants that are revealed in Scripture, but we are going to do so by focusing in on the blood covenants in particular because together they make up the “eternal blood covenant” that Yeshua RENEWED by his own blood.

**1st off; this is not an “eternal blood covenant” – The best it can be is ‘everlasting’ that all by itself has points that must be fully accounted for. By saying RENEWED You (parroting KC) are regurgitating (his swallowed) popular Jewish Messianic, HR, Netarim Israel thot. The“blood covenant” that Yahshua Ratified by his own blood was a NEW covenant with New parts making it brand New – just like Jer.31:31-33 says for the reason it says it.

52 ++Mat 24:44,48, But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: …… Heb 10:26-31 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. This phrase trampling under foot is because in ancient days, like in the first Passover, the blood of a covenant was sometimes placed on a threshold. They would step over the blood as they passed over the threshold and not trample it under their feet. To treat the blood of a blood covenant as common and willfully violate the terms of covenant after having the knowledge of truth isn’t without penalty; Not then and not now under the renewed covenant, because the renewed covenant is made by the shedding of blood as well. More precious blood even, because it isn’t just the blood of animals. We need to come to a proper place of reverent fear with regards to the understanding of what blood covenant is and how faithfulness isn’t just our goal, it is the very condition of such a covenant…or else.

**True enough – Everything we ask of the Father thru the Son is a Covenant Benefit. Shouldn’t we then strive to keep the Covenant? But we must correctly divide to know of wherewith we speak. And You (& KC) keep pushing the solely Messianic error of a Renewed Blood Covenant – you seriously need to read and understand Jer 31:32 *Not like/according* to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, … Dasha can mean both either – to make new or rebuild – the new parts are brand new, the“blood covenant” that Yahshua Ratified by his own blood was a NEW covenant with New parts making it New – just like Jer.31:31-33 says for the reason it says it. See Answer #12

68++This leads us into the first of the RESTORATION covenants.

** Now you throw around the term RESTORATION ‘covenant’ – in all caps trying to make a point of its inherent rightness – again you seem to be very light on scripture proof – the term RESTORATION ‘covenant’ – Where is it? Your (KC’s) attempt to introduce never used unbiblical terms is an attempt to control the conversation and the direction of it – Who would do such a thing? Yeah hath God said? This effort is not lost to me – you are hiding nothing and at that not very well.

89++2. Genesis 38 The chapter with Judah and Tamar makes reasonable sense in light of the seed of the woman promise. After Jacob had 12 sons, the roles of priest, king, and firstborn were split. Joseph (later Ephraim) got the firstborn double portion, Levi got the priesthood blessing, and Judah the kingship.

**There’s your board bush gaps with the holes again – You are precisely Wrong – at the point of Gen.49 – Levi is shown to be cursed and scattered with Simeon v:5 – Now how do you get a priesthood blessing (verbiage that is not there) for only Levi and cookie cut Simeon out of the picture? – it is only because the Levites distinguished themselves at Ex.32 that they got the Plan ‘B’ Priesthood as Num.3:12 records.

128++While I haven’t focused on this aspect of covenants, I mention it briefly now. But back to our key details we notice: The parties to this second Covenant with Abraham are: Abraham, his seed after him, YHUH The sign of this covenant is the physical mark of circumcision in the flesh representative of “seed” and offspring. The conditions were that Abraham had to walk blamelessly before Him. This means that Abraham had to mature in the intended purpose of YHWH in all things. The sign of this
covenant also requires Abraham to perform an action. He had to circumcise himself and his household and his seed after him. This sign marks the descendants as the intended inheritors of the unconditional promises that were made to Abraham. It shed’s blood and is therefore without question a part of this blood covenant.

** Gen.15 unconditional??? attached to a death position ie the ultimate condition? Also – Human blood is not part, needed or commanded by YHWH to ratify any biblical covenant to Israel accept Yahshua concerning the New Covenant – concerning when a man & woman join in human marriage this then is that couples unity – This is to mankind not just Israel.

129++Abraham is now getting further instruction about passing the promises onto his descendants as the sign of the FIRST covenant with Abraham is about to be born. (Isaac) The covenant meal was eaten just after this when YHUH and two angels show up to Abraham’s tent … where Sarah laughs as she hasn’t had a child and is very old. Abraham had her ~ 59 ~prepare a lamb and bake bread in that story.

** Isaac wasn’t “the sign of the FIRST covenant” – The Bible never says that. He was 1 of several delivered promises of Gen.15 – And – What Bible are your reading? Gen.18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a *calf* <ben> <baqar> tender and good,… – Not a lamb.

138++The eternal covenant is made up of these three covenants, Numbers 2,3, and 4 that is later renewed as covenants 2, 3, and 8.

**What bizarro reasoning is this? – The (as in 1) eternal covenant “is made up of these three covenants” but #4 is omitted it favor of a #8 you’ve never even mentioned – ??? – And you expect others to follow this. As I said you twist this all up and say Ta Daah; See?

And what is more you lack understanding of even what you (and KC) say. This is a good place to inform you and others that None of these covenants you speak of is “eternal” (no beginning / no end) they all had a start. The best these covenants can be is everlasting but then we have to deal with / in Hebrew ‘olam’ which does not only or always mean our concept of ‘forever’ or unending but includes the awareness of a ‘point out of mind’.

145++of Kingdom = by This is consistent with
Abraham’s unconditional covenant by which his faith is accounted to him as righteousness.

**The frequency of continual repetition will Never make your error a truth – You say “faith alone not of works.” Yet Eph.2:10 (& others) says differently – Covenant Fidelity (faithfulness) is based on & is evidenced by walking out Covenant ie Covenant works. You again pander to & try to reinforce your popularly largely Messianic accepted idea of ‘Abraham’s unconditional covenant’ – See Answers #100 – &- #107 &#111 & #114 &# 128

158++ Then He tells Moses the other judgments and ordinances about the way the Father thinks and how Israel is to act accordingly. Moses then composes these things, including the 10 Words, in the Book of the Covenant. I want you to realize how central this point is. The 10 Words are the only time in the Old Testament where He speaks audibly to the assembly, to the church in the wilderness.

**This is a greazy attempt to cover the truth of the matter – the 10 Words Ex.20 are NOT just ‘in’ the Book of the Covenant – but by Ex.24:3 are part ‘of’ the Book of the Covenant Ex.19:5 thru 24:8.The reason & need for Ex.24:3 is Ex 20:18-19 – The people feared the sound of His voice – they did not refuse what YHWH continued to say thru Moses hence the need for Ex.24:3 to agree to the merger of the 2 parts as 1 then Ex.24:7 to agree to the Whole Cov”t and Ex.24:8 to ‘Blood Ratify’ the Whole Book of the Covenant – Which brings up this point – When I ask 1’s that push this ’10 Words’ only non-sense; where was just the ’10 Words’/Com’dts ‘Blood Ratified’? They invariably go to Ex.24:8 like you (& KC) would have to – oblivious to the fact of Ex.24:3 – KC could have told you and everyone else this, he could have read it for himself and his group but he did not and does not listen – Will You?

175++Now, since they have broken the blood covenant, the Son must die.

**Now you have step in your own trap and not wise enough to see it – Again you do not ID this – but this is Gen.15 your so-called unconditional covenant – but say “the Son must die”! Why? According to your previous statements there is no condition! Now you say “since they have broken the blood covenant” IDing a condition and to top it all off you yourself (without saying so) ID Gen.15:17 – See Entry #174

190++All of this is a direct result of the broken blood covenant made with the first set of tablets. Also notice, that Moses wears a veil. Is it not interesting that this veil served to hide the glory of YHWH from the people and that when Yeshua renewed the eternal blood covenant in His own
blood a veil was rent.

**Again not ‘RENEWED’ – You (& KC) keep pushing the solely Messianic error of a Renewed Blood Covenant – you seriously need to read and understand Jer 31:32 *Not according* to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, … Dasha can mean both either – to make new or rebuild – the new parts are brand new the“blood covenant” that Yahshua Ratified by his own blood was a NEW covenant with New parts making it New – just like Jer.31:31-33 says for the reason it says it. See Answers 35, 36, 46, 52, 55. 83, 84, 85, 86, 120, 139, 177

195++Gal 3:18-25 For if the inheritance be of the law (ask yourself, “which law?”), it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. (Look at the timeline and see to see where the promises came first) Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by an angel in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. When we examine this passage, I want you to notice how simple it can be when we understand the distinction between the covenants and their functions. How “law” can at first seem mean in reference to any the many different covenant instructions, but if we put the context into what we know of the timeline progression of covenants, all is made clear. Promise and inheritance and references to Abraham: What are we referring to? The entry into blood covenant that was given by the PROMISE and entered into by faith alone at covenant 2. So, what is this “law” that was added BECAUSE OF transgressions? The Law of Moses or Covenant 5 as the Biblical narrative reveals.

**Now you (& KC) unknowingly have caught yourself yet again and at that in a twist of truth which is an untruth or commonly known as a lie. You are dealing with Gal.3. You have just quoted Gal.3:19 ‘Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made …’ minus the verse designation ??? – Then you try to shoehorn in your ‘Law of Moses’ verbiage that is not there in Gal.3 – Yet you ignore Gal.3:10 which out right says “Book of the Law”; so Gal.3:19 while definitely IDing the ‘Law of Moses’ as you say also includes “Book of the Law” by context of Gal.3:10 which you neglected to reveal. Why? Because it doesn’t fit your story? Of what your pushing? This is neither Aware, Honest or Scholarly!!!

Research reveals that your (& KC’s) showcased pony-to-ride, point-to-push phrase ‘Law of Moses’ comes from ‘the Book of the Law of Moses’ appearing in the Bible 4 times; which both do Not appear till Jos 8:31. Neither appear in Gal.3. The phrase ‘Book of the Law of Moses’ Never appears in the NT. However the phrase ‘Book of the Law’ appears 1 time in the NT at Gal.3:10. (oh please do verify-Acts 17:11). Both John 7:23 & Acts15:5 on circumcision in the ‘law of Moses’ example Both Gen.17:10-11 & Jos.5:2-5 both are outside both ends of your Deut. Only ‘Book of the Law’ parameters as is Jos 8:31 & Jos 23:6 are outside your ‘Law of Moses’ parameters with Joshua ‘adding’ to “’the Book of the Law” (of Moses) at Jos 24:26; again outside of your set parameters for both – So – I will ask; Are we to believe you or the Bible? And it does not stop there; All mentions of the ‘Book of the Law’ and ‘the Book of the Law of Moses’ are synonymously interchangeable (Law of 1st mention) at Jos 1:8, Jos 8:31, Jos 8:34, Jos 23:6, Jos 24:26 as in the 1 in the same. Much as Gal.3:10, 17, 19 & Heb.7:11 tell it. Also See Answer #221 – Don’t you just love the complete full truth?

205++THE SECOND GENERATION – So we arrive now at the book of Deuteronomy. It is at the opening with chapter one that we are given the setting and the time of the next events: Deu 1:1-26 These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan ………. And it came to pass in the fortieth year, in the eleventh month, on the first day of the month, that Moses spake unto the children of Israel, according unto all that the LORD had given him in commandment unto them; After he had slain Sihon the king of the Amorites, which dwelt in Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, which dwelt at Astaroth in Edrei: On this side Jordan, in the land of Moab, began Moses to declare this law, saying, The LORD our God spake unto us in Horeb, (Sinai) saying,

**Horeb is not Mt. Sinai it is in the Sinai Wilderness yet not the same place – proof? Compare Ex 32:34 with Ex 33:6 – Ask yourself – where’d they go? The same place? That makes no sense!

206++Ye have dwelt long enough in this mount: …
Deu 4:1-2 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments,

**Deu 4:1-2 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes **and** unto the judgments, – this is identical to Ex.24:3 – the giving of the full Book of the Covenant Not just 10 words.

207++which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. So here we go! Moses is giving commandments of YHUH to this second generation who is about to go up into the land. They had been functioning under covenant 5 and Moses takes note that: Deu 4:4 But ye that DID cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day. It is at this point that I need to point out a phrase that you will see repeatedly in relationship to covenant 5, the Law of Moses: Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

**Deu 4:1-2 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes **and** unto the judgments, – this is identical to Ex.24:3 – the giving of the full Book of the Covenant Not just 10 words. And is confirmed at Ezk.20:11, 13, 19, 21 the Mlkzdq portion vs v:25 the Levitical portion.

215++Deu 5:1-22 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

** This is Deut 5:1 it sets the stage for the rest of Deut 5 this (in context is the law of 1st mention) & agrees with Ex.24:3 – This cannot be ignored much to the shagrin of those who only point to Deut 5:22

216++The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

**The phrase is ‘YHWH our Elohim’ – and Horeb is not Mt. Sinai it is in the Sinai Wilderness yet not the same place – proof? Compare Ex 32:34 with Ex 33:6 – Ask yourself – where’d they go? The same place? That makes no sense! See Answer #205

217++The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying, … These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them to me

** The Hebrew word ‘lo’ translated ‘no’ can also be translated verily or as for a truth – ‘More’ which would agree with Ex.24:3, Deut 4:1, 5:1, 9:10, 10:4 and even the surrounding verbiage of Dt.5:22 itself See Answers #172, *180*, 207 & 215

221++They are given specific instructions about the quoting of the curses and the blessings upon the two mounts when they enter the land and we find in Joshua that they do as they were commanded and go to these two mounts to do this very thing when they enter into the ~ 97 ~promised land. Moses was giving them the instructions, but he himself wouldn’t enter into the land. Joshua saw through this part of the covenant instructions under his watch as we read in Jos 8:30-35 Then Joshua built an altar unto the LORD God of Israel in mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses

** I did some investigation into the phrase “the book of the law of Moses ” and found some interesting things along with what I already knew. 1st off Dt.31:26 – Jos 8:31, Jos 23:6, 2Ki 14:6, 2Ch 25:4, 2Ch 34:14, Nem 8:1 – You and KC say the BotL is only Duet. – 1st off the Apostle Paul disagrees with you – Gal.3:17 states that the Law (Book of the Law v:10 same chptr) came at the same 430yr proximity (after the Gen.15 ‘promise’) as the Book of the Covenant. That is Exactly what you see at Ex.24; the difference btx the ratification of the BotC at v:8 and the initiation of Law (BotL) at v:12. Read Gal.3:10 with 19 & Heb.7:11; the transgression that brought the Levitcal Priesthood started at Ex.32 and changed everything retro active to Ex.24:12 for the covenant was broken but Ex.24:12 and on remained; for it (the Law) was not ratified thus changeable (Ezk.20:25) – next we see (and you could have known) that Joshua adds to the ‘book of the law’ in Jos 24:26 you say is confined to Duet. – so your (& KC’s) Duet. as only your imagined Book of the Law parameters are blown at both ends.

227++~ 98 ~An additional thing I want to add to our understanding of the Book of the Law, or Covenant 6, is that it is an oath. Deu 29:12-14 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day: That he may establish thee today for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; You might be asking, “Why does this matter?” I want you to see that while the Book of the Law (Covenant 6, the book of Deut. ) is a covenant, it functions as an oath added to a preceding covenant much like happened for Covenant 2 with Abraham.

** Now this is where you (& KC) have a problem – You have completely ignored Gen.12 as YHWH’s oath/self covenant to bless Abraham, it doesn’t even rate on your handy not so accurate 123 covenant line up. “and into his oath” makes a distinction – as is something different. Dedicated wholly unto YHWH. Ever bother to wonder why it doesn’t say ‘our oath’? Here or any where else in the Bible? – Probably not or else you (& KC) would have stated it showing that figured-out awareness on your own. How’d you miss this? You had access to my books or at least KC always had since his beginning. But then in his arrogance; he knows better. Ya think? Does the evidence prove this? Even Paul ID’d the Gen.12 oath as an oath at Heb.6:13 “… because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself”. But KC missed this too. This is Not the demonstrated Blood Ratification of Gen.15. Gen.12 is YHWH’s Oath – the fall back position that is the base for all covenants with Israel especially the subsequent 4 “covenants of promise” (Eph.2:12) you (or KC) in addition; do not discern nor make a distinction of.

228++Let’s look at that right quick. In Hebrews 6:13 we learn that Abraham had the unconditional promises of Covenant 2, but AFTER he passed the test with the willingness to offer up of Isaac as a condition of covenant faithfulness, he received an oath which confirmed or strengthened the promises established in Covenant 2.

**You keep continually pounding this now expanded error – Now you twist in Hebrews 6:13 to validate your error at Gen.15 when it clearly goes to Gen.12 that you do not have the awareness to validate – You (& KC?) even say the words but have no awareness to understand what you just said (1Tim 1:7). But to be fair most all Messianic Torah Teachers teach this same error that you describe – That you (& KC) as the discerner & dispenser of covenant knowledge have bought into and swallowed! SHAME on you (both)!!! Gen.15 had the Death Position ie ‘conditional’. Gen.12 does not ie ‘un-conditional’ – Please do check up on me and verify it for yourselves Acts 17:11

240++I wish the story ended happily ever after, but as we know and as Moses and YHUH knew even in that moment, such would not be the case. Deu 31:27-29 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. But it was for this reason that this particular covenant was NOT put within the ark.

**Maybe because it wasn’t a bona-fide covenant in the 1st place – you can’t add or subtract to a covenant (Gal.3:15) but Joshua did (Jos.24:26 ) – But that blows your Book of the Law/Deuteronomy Only assertion.

243++Though there is much concerning the Book of the Law, that gives instructions regarding holiness and how to be a good neighbor when dwelling in the place of inheritance, we cannot assume this covenant is permanent and unchanging. There has been no demonstration that this is a blood covenant and there has been no new token or meal included within it. We know too that the detail pertaining to curses will be altered. ANY change to a covenant necessitates the making of a new covenant entirely.

**You are directly implying the the ‘new covenant’ of Jer.31 had to be made to replace what you call the law of Moses covenant (not ratified), the Book of the Law covenant (not ratified) – BUT – That is not what Jer.31:31-33 says; READ it! It is implicitly to replace the Blood Covenant the Israelite/Egyptain fathers broke at Sinai.

249++ … David was a Melchizedek

** Where in the Bible does it ever say That!!! – To be a Melchizedek you have to be King & Priest – David was King of Israel that had a prohibition of being a priest and also king – See. Gen.49:10, Num.3:12 – After Ex.32 no one could be a Melchizedek anything till Yahshua. And don’t even try that Ps 110 Jewish nonsense where David shoehorns himself into his own prophesy?

251++ … But also we see why it is that Yeshua, the son of MAN, a man Himself, is born of the line of David and promised to reign and rule over the nations of the earth. We know that YHWH had to become flesh in order to taste death, but also we see that the issue that Israel created in their sin of requesting a man from among them to reign over them is redeemed in Yeshua, the image of YHWH in this earth, becoming man to reign and rule! There are NO accidents. Not in any detail.

**Forever? Without end? See 1Kgs.9:6-7. Even in Yahshua’s time there was no king of Israel let alone from the line of David and had not been 1 since the Babylonian captivity around 587 BC and Yahshua himself decreed over Jerusalem that their ‘House’ would be ‘left’ not made but ‘left’ to them desolate as in already was (Mt 23:38) – Only a Kingdom has a King – A ‘House’ does not

254++ … So while Judah actually is recorded as being WORSE than her sister to the north, the ten tribes of Israel, who is scattered to the four winds and not returned to the land, Judah receives mercy for the sake of the unconditional promises to David

** You (& KC?) say “unconditional promises to David” this is yet another double speak – or did you forget quoting – 1Kgs 9:5-6 “…as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel. *But* if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land” – Helloooo – This is a Condition!!!

259++ … Not even a covenant cut in error can be undone!

** This is yet another not-quite-right ‘absolute statement’ misspeak – and another, and another, and another, and another until we come to our senses; of being under your (& KC’s) twisted tale of personal imaginations that include hairpin switch back misspeaks and tortured confess to anything double talk that conversely shoehorns in tripe while omitting crucial information – As you say – a covenant honored can Not be undone – BUT – it still can be broken – which includes being “undone”.

261++ … The RENEWED BLOOD COVENANT

**The Jer.31 NEW (BLOOD) COVENANT – See Answer #190 – On KC’s count of 8 that ignores the Gen.12 ‘oath’ the basis of all BLOOD COVENANT’s of promise (Eph.2:12/ Heb.6:13) a distinct category (not mentioned) including the Rev.19:7 ‘Marriage’ (COVENANT) of the Lamb that is also glaringly ignored in his 123 covenant not so accurate or complete line up

266++His arrival in the flesh, ~ 139 ~all glory of YHWH set aside, was so that he could bear the penalty of death per the broken blood covenant as detailed in Covenant 2 with Abraham!

**Now you in double-speak admit what you called ‘the eternal’ covenant that could Not be broken as “the broken blood covenant” … “with Abraham!” – Don’t look so “eternal”; now does it? – See Answers #138 & 159

267++ … Neos is the second most common word for new in the New Testament, occurring in its root form over 20 times. Thayer identifies its primary meaning as “recently born, young, youthful,” Neos . has the sense of belonging to the present moment, and not previously existent, just now appearing. So what is difference? Both the Hebrew chadash (Jer. 31:31) and the Greek kainos (Heb. 8:8) words for “new” may be more properly translated “renewed” as opposed to “brand-new”.

**Are you High? In your own schizophrenic imagination!!! – See you yourself (& KC) freely state – 2537 kainós – properly, new in quality, fresh in development or opportunity – “not found exactly like this before.” – STRONGS NT 2537 – as respects form; recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn and new, which as recently made is superior to what it succeeds: – Thayer identifies its primary meaning as “recently born, young, youthful,” Neos . has the sense of belonging to the present moment, and not previously existent, just now appearing. – All these words example “not previously existent, just now appearing” as in “brand-new” and NOT “renewed” which agrees with ‘not like’ of Jer.31:32
“Chadash and therefore Kainos may mean new in quality. It can mean to renew or repair.” Thankyou for that limp wristed attempt at honesty. Chadash does Not only or always mean ‘renew’ it most correctly means as is evidenced by your definitions ‘New’ as in “brand-new”.

272++ Yeshua is saying in effect that the symbols of the cup and the bread now represent the memorial of him taking on that penalty for the first broken covenant as well as being that which is cut and broken for the renewed and improved covenant that is being made through His own death.

**This is scrambled – Yes – 1] Yahshua is saying in effect that the symbols of the cup and the bread now represent the memorial of him taking on that penalty for the first broken covenant, 2] Don’t you mean your #2 count of Gen.15?, 3] This is Not a renewed and improved covenant it is NEW! – See Answers #190, 267

273++ … Do you see how this
too points us in the direction of the ONENESS of Yeshua in the place of YHUH, the Father? That is why when Philip says, “Show us the Father.” Yeshua replied, “Have I been with you so long and you don’t yet know. If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.” (John 14:9). This perspective of a testament is consistent with our understanding of covenant for many reasons. One, covenant is particularly about receiving the promises of an inheritance. The restoration of all things is about being restored as firstborn in the Melchizedek priesthood and that includes among the role of priest and kingship, the matter of inheritance. Well listen to the writer of Hebrews on this matter:

**Now we come to new heights of non-sense you have been hinting at this but now out-right declare – The non-sense of ONENESS the Father IS the Son and the Son IS the Father – so now you have some nut hanging on a cross saying – Me, Me why have I forsaken Me – ??? – This ONENESS shtick is so very wack and so easily disproved. See; https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/2014/05/28/oneness-error/

280++ … So to recap: Jesus Christ is the Messenger and Mediator of the new covenant (Hebrews 8:6;12:24). He is also the sacrifice — he himself is the new covenant.

**This sounds like the Christian Sunday School Hyper Religious vernier version of reason akin to the defense nonsense that My sweet ‘Jesus is the Sabbath’ and he did it all; Bless God – so that I don’t have to. (???) Yahshua Himself mediates the new covenant – It is ratified in His Blood BUT he himself is Not the new covenant itself. Just like Moses mediated the Book of the Covenant and was Not the Book of the Covenant itself – Rev15:3

295++~ 153 ~• The “husband” in the marriage that took place at Sinai dies (on the cross) which frees the wife/woman to remarry without being an adulteress

**Hellooo – to remarry without being an adulteress – implies to someone else – It was YHWH Israel was married to – Yahshua was the Go`el kinsmen redeemer of Gen.15 for all parties including YHWH the Father that’s why this time it’s to the Lamb Rev.19:7 & 9

299++• We are given authority in Yeshua’s name to function in the earth. This is a beginning step in restoring dominion to righteous men until they are given authority to reign and rule in the Kingdom to come. … • The wall of partition which was the division of the two houses of Israel has been torn down and now there is neither Judean nor Ephraimite (also called “Jew” and “Gentile”) distinction among YHWH’s people for they are again one nation or “house” in the renewed blood covenant. Eph 2:14-22

**Not renewed – BETTER promises alone would prove that point!– See Answer #190 – And “The ‘wall of partition’ was NOT about the division of the two houses of Israel”– your assertion is misleading and is neither honest nor scholarly. Eph.2:14 has to do with the separating “Jew” and “Gentile” -See Eph.2:11-13 in context. See; https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/eph-214/

301++• We are promised that one day we will be “like Him” when we see YHWH face to face and that we will put on the “incorruptible.” This speaks of the promise to have the image AND the likeness of YHWH returned to us. We are empowered by the Holy Spirit to begin to function according to the image of YHWH now when we obey what He instructs us though for now, we may wrestle with corruptible flesh. That corruptibility will be put aside entirely according to the promises that remain to be fulfilled. 1 John 3:2-3 • The Levites are promised to be purified and restored into service along with the sons of Zadok (the sons of righteousness) who are likely the Melchizedek priests.

**Wrong! “the sons of (the man) Zadok (the sons of – ‘righteousness’ – Zadok the man’s name – 2Sam.8:17)” are still Levites in the Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood who are Not Melchizedek priests

302++ There is evidence that there are those among the believing body who will function as priests without being Levites. Mal 3:3-4, Ez 40:46, Rev 20:6

**Mal 3:3 … he shall purify the sons of Levi, Ezk 40:46 …these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, – Do you even understand what you assert & post and hope no one checks? – See Answer #301 – You forgot 1Ptr.2:9 along with Rev 20:6 (& the NT) are Melchizedek

305++Not everything has been completely restored at this time, though we can rest assured that the work He has begun in US, the initial problem, He will be faithful to complete. … The final judgment will close out the deal where any remaining enemies will be ultimately and finally destroyed and the fullness of all remaining promises will be realized in the Renewed Heaven and Earth. I hope that this detailed breakdown of the most obvious conflicts and their resolutions through the function of 8 total covenants has assisted you in understanding the “big picture” and how it is that we cannot treat lightly the renewed blood covenant in Yeshua.

**Yet again – Not renewed – BETTER promises alone would prove that point!– See Answer #190 and your (& KC’s) 8 total covenants is neither total, completely accurate, defined well enough, as it omits the most important 1 the ‘oath’ of Gen.12 and the distinction of what are the covenants of promise

243++Though there is much concerning the Book of the Law, that gives instructions regarding holiness and how to be a good neighbor when dwelling in the place of inheritance, we cannot assume this covenant is permanent and unchanging. There has been no demonstration that this is a blood covenant and there has been no new token or meal included within it. We know too that the detail pertaining to curses will be altered. ANY change to a covenant necessitates the making of a new covenant entirely.

**You are directly implying the the ‘new covenant’ of Jer.31 had to be made to replace what you call the law of Moses covenant (not ratified), the Book of the Law covenant (not ratified) – BUT – That is not what Jer.31:31-33 says; READ it! It is implicitly to replace the Blood Covenant the Israelite/Egyptain fathers broke at Sinai.

263++He is a man that can bring the full judgment upon murderous men according to the role of Kinsman Redeemer and per the covenant death penalty detail of Covenant

**Well well now you confirm what I’ve been saying all along – But again (without knowing it ie oblivious to) you reveal your (& KC’s) double speak. See Answers #51, 128, 228, 259

320++There is no token presented to guarantee the place of the bride thereafter. What will remain for those that come after this time is the offer to be guests and friends of the bridegroom and the bride. Such will be allowed to share the table of fellowship with Yeshua and His bride. However not all are the bride of Messiah. How humbling it is to realize that the offer of being the bride and not just a guest has been made available through demonstrated faithfulness to the Instructions of Covenant! If you are among those whose heart is being drawn by this message, how marvelous is that realization?!!!!

**If you are among those whose heart is being confused and convoluted by this (KC’s) message, how marvelous is that realization?!!!! ?????????????????????????????

325++1Co 2:7 -10 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. …But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God. This Covenant plan is the mystery of YHWH revealed. I pray it has been edifying to you and provokes you to search to see if these things be true. If found true, may you be FAITHFUL to the Covenant Word of Truth and uphold it until the end!! Shalom in Messiah Yeshua ~~A Fellow Heir to the Promises

** This has been a grueling 6 day exercise of enduring your continual repetition of both reprinted Bible text narratives and your (& KC’s) consistent peppered errors of it. Not limited to Covenant or Priesthood. This assault on the understanding of Covenants and Priesthood is different in direction of the Levitical defending direct attacks on the Melkizedeq Priesthood. Although you (& KC) basically agree with Covenants & the Melkizedeq Priesthood BUT your equation is misguided in that it is a mix of truth with the skewed lack thereof with a multitude of error and some direct contradictions based on deceptive &/or convoluted comparisons yielding less-than conclusions.

You (& KC) gloss over and fail to to include in your handy (shoe) 1 – 8 covenant listing 2 of the most important Covenants of this whole Bible Covenant drama and fail to present the ‘Covenants of Promise’ (Eph.2:12) distinction category of a covenant class unto itself – Yahweh’s ‘Oath’ (which is a self covenant/agreement) of Gen.12 ‘to’ Bless Abraham before YHWH ever entered into covenant ‘with’ Abraham at Gen.15 to guarantee His (YHWH’s) promise already given to Abraham at Gen.12. Gen.12 is the anchor base for this covenant class. Then you fail to include the Marriage (a covenant) of the Lamb (Yahshua) at Rev.19:7 to a certain Bride-group of Abraham’s offspring – The whole crescendo point of Gen.12 within this very covenant class but then you can read my books.

https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/books

Matthew has stated and I full well see why people come away confused at your (KC) non-distinct cobbled covenant mess. It is not enough to end with a somewhat correct answer – coming from a mostly incorrect equation – For the sum of that incorrect equation leaves gaps and holes for others to be confused on and yet gives dissenting others an occasion to find verifiable fault both with the reasoning, logic, so-called evidence & skewed conclusions of it that do not completely match the biblical text.

PS – Your(&/or KC’s) continual repeating of an untruth will never make it truth.

May His Full Covenant Truth be Yours – David L. Perry Th.D.

Notice – This presentation has been edited for brevity – If you would like a copy of the whole 144 page document; you can send that request to; yst@YahsSpiritofTruth.com – Thankyou

Melkizedeq Attack 6

Melkizedeq Attack 6

Here it is: Daniel Hall’s Melkizedek objections – Daniel Hall is a Rico Cortes follower who despite all the good he has supports the Levitical Priesthood mindset – regardless of the fact that it is infested with Orthodox & Rabbinic (thus popular Messianic) thought who reject Yahshua and His Gen.49:10 restoration.

**Dr.Dave answers under each numbered issue
++ Daniel Hall objections
************
1++All Torah stands.

**Great – Spoken like a non-discript barrel chested defender of the party line; the Messianic, HR, Netzarim, Jewish (et. al) assumption ie the belief – I mean the faith.

Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10? – How ’bout Ex.32 or Num.3:12 & Num.8:15-17 not to mention Jos.5:5 – These all demonstrate ‘change’ and the reason for ‘change’ much as Ezk.20:10-25 tells it and Heb.7:11-12 evidences
The point to understand is Gen.49:10 – It is not a ‘change’ of Torah; to enact the ‘change’ in Torah; that has always been right there in Torah.

2++(Daniel Hall) Levi’s priesthood is guaranteed by Messiahs blood in the “new covenant”
Read Jer 33:14-21

**Do you really want to go there? OK – If as you would like to point out “David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel” & “Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.”

The operative words in both cases is ‘never’ ie ‘continually’ ie ‘no lapse’

Where are they!!!? Any of them – 1st off; there was no David descendant on the throne even in Yahshua’s time of Roman occupation and even before that going back to the Babylonian Captivity – That’s why Yahshua said ‘your house is left to you desolate’ (Mt 23:38) – As in ‘not functional’ – Not made desolate ; but already was – A pre-existing condition. Flash – Only a Kingdom has a King – A House does NOT! – Hint; Yahshua understood that point by His own decree – Go figure. Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38.

2Nd The Pharisees (and modern Rabbis) even in Yahshua’s time going back to the Babylonian Captivity had usurped the from Torah Levitical priest position. Notice – ‘never’ ie ‘continually’ would extend till today; Right? Aside from the non-existent Lev. Priests today usurped by Rabbis – Where is the Lev. High Priest? This ought to simple to answer, after all by Torah there can only be 1 – Who is it? Or the 1 before that, Or the 1 before that, etc.? – you get the idea – Your position is insurmountably baseless.

Then there’s the ‘Not Like’ verbiage of Jer 31:31-33 – That clearly again speaks of ‘change’

3++There are 4 groups of people in the “new covenant” sealed by Messiah’s blood in the Heavenly Temple FOREVER.

1)House of Judah aka Jews and gentiles who join to them by faith
2)House of Israel aka lost sheep and gentiles who join to them by faith
3)House of David
4)House of Levi
The priesthood on earth is Levi’s Olam (forever) All the Laws regarding Temple service by Levi will stand Olam

** 1st off the House of David is part of the House of Judah, the partial House (ie Tribe) of Levi (post Assyrian Captivity) even prior to the Babylonian Captivity was also part of the House of Judah containing; Judah, Benjamin, & a partial Tribe of Levi.

Again you insist that @ All the Laws regarding Temple service by Levi will stand Olam

Where is it? Where are they?

You must not know what ‘olam’ can mean – Do the research; ‘olam’ neither only or always means our concept of ‘forever’, it more correctly means ‘to a point out of mind’.

4++ read Eze 40 to end of the book.

** Yes; Please do closely read Ezk.40 to Ezk.48 to the end of the book – and look closely this is to all Israel not just the Jews and there is a division of regular Lev. Priest to the people (all Israel) and the sons of Zadok (which are sons of Aaron – which are still Levites) ministering to Yah – Did you catch that ‘to Yah’ not with Yah.

And who will pull that together Yahweh or a bunch of Torah hijacking illegal Rabbis?

Besides that read;
https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/ezekiel-40-48/
And there are other anomalies – http://www.hope-of-israel.org/ezekielstemple.html

5++Pinchas was given the priesthood by covenant Forever through out his generations. Num 25:12-13

**Again do the study of ‘olam’ and with that the study of ‘dowr – generations’

https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/olam/

6++Whatever the book of Hebrews is speaking about it cannot contradict Torah Num 25:12-13 Prophets Eze multiple chaptets 40-48 Jer 33

** Sorry but this does Not make cognitive cohesive lucid sense & is a puzzlement of you asserting to know Bible but in effect admitting you do not fully comprehend what the Book of Hebrews is saying

7++If Hebrews does contradict these books then we have no option but to disregard Hebrews!

** And most do exactly that – then Paul – then the NT and Yahshua – Bad Choice! Bad Advise! Lousy ethic to defend, table & teach! Shows lazy scholarship!

8++Or – Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah or possible manipulation of the text by “christian” translators to pass on their “dogma” to their readers

** What??? Bingo!!! @ “Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah or … manipulation of the text by “christian” (not to mention Yahshua rejecting Jews inspiring Messianic) translators to pass on their “dogma” to their readers” – And that’s the point you (like traditional Jews) have no understanding of the division of Laws, Priesthoods or Covenants from Torah – You insist that nothing has changed – You deny the change back to the Melkizedeq Priesthood – You admit to a lack of understanding – Yet you assert & project as if you do – but not only that you defend against this knowledge (ergo this exercise) and seek to project that to others.

9++ Messiah said “nothing can change in Torah or the prophets”

** Now we have come full circle – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” ie ‘change’ – See 1

10++The FALSE WITNESSES found in Acts 6:13-15 made up this doctrine!

** These FALSE WITNESSES (like you) were not telling the whole story – were not validating the true & valid parts of Torah that did not support their position. This is FALSE WITNESS also – See any reflection yet?

Again – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” not to mention Acts 15:10 – Which supports Ezk.20:10-25, 2Cor.3:11, Heb.7:11-12, etc. ie ‘change’ – See 1

11++ All the elders if the 1st century “church” advised Paul to do a Nazirite vow to prove he Paul kept Torah. The Nazirite vow process can be found in Num 6 Every Levitical sacrifice is part of this vow Including Sin sacrifice! This vow is carried out in the Temple under the jurisdiction of the Levitical Priesthood!

** @ “Every Levitical sacrifice is part of this vow” this statement is pure error. Then you have a problem – You say @ “This vow is carried out in the Temple under the jurisdiction of the Levitical Priesthood!”

1st The Temple post Babylonian captivity this was ruled by the Pharisees – a clear Torah break – 2nd this issue with Paul and the Nazirite vow was after Yahshua’s crucifixion which torn the vail signifying an end to that Levitical system. Then read about the anomalies concerning 40yrs and the Temple

https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/about-atonement/

12++Paul agreed to this plan formulated by ALL THE ELDERS
Acts 21:17-24 Not once in all the sworn court testimony Paul made under oath in YHVH’s name do we ever see Paul say I taught Messiah did away with the Levitical priesthood and changed the customs Moshe gave us therefore making the physical Temple null and void.

** Act 18:18 Paul had taken a vow – Acts 21:17-24 shows Paul ending that vow by Num.6 the only Torah way possible – @ “The Nazirite vow (‘exit’) process can be found in Num 6” Moral? Do not take such a vow – The thing to remember Paul was at the transition cutting edge. He said – 1Cor 9:21-22 – He also circumcised Timothy – WHY? Because of the Jews that were in that quarter. – ie to gain audience with Jews that would not hear it any other way not anything else.

Concerning ‘the sworn court testimony’ Paul is more shrewd in his defense – he simply attests to Torah keeping which includes ‘change’ (2Cor.3:11/Heb.7:12 – Gen.49:10) – Whether they (or you) realize it or not

13++I challenge you to read the texts

**I challenge you to read the texts

14++I will give a few examples from many. Read from Acts 21 to end of book. Paul affirms the Levitical priesthood as still being the rulers of Israel Acts 23:2-5

** Your delusional – Paul does not validate the Levitical priesthood as still being the ‘rulers’ of Israel – Where is that verbiage? That is completely against Torah – By Gen.49:10 Judah was to rule – but even that was not happening under Roman occupation.

15++Paul says the ONLY reason he is on trial is because of teaching “resurrection” (of Messiah) Acts 23:6

** Your delusional – Reading in what is not there Paul stealthfully divides his accusers BUT never says ‘ONLY’ which you highlight as so – biblically it is Not there.

16++Paul said he went up to Jerusalem to “worship” and tells us what two religious venues this “worship” he performed took place in “The TEMPLE” and in “synagogues” ….the central focus of Temple worship is sacrifice!

** This is not Worshiping the Temple – But – Worshiping ‘in’ the Temple – This was a transition time – Even yet we are to go to the Highways & Byways – What do you think that means? – Read Acts 18:4-6

17++Paul believes EVERYTHING in Torah and the prophets Acts 24:14-15

** And again we have come full circle; yet again – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” ie ‘change’ How ’bout Ex.32 or Num.3:12 & Num.8:15-17 not to mention Jos.5:5 – These all demonstrate ‘change’ and the reason for ‘change’ much as Ezk.20:10-25 tells it and Heb.7:11-12 evidences – I will speak for myself – I believe Paul did state the truth – but would let them believe what they wanted – such as you and others do now. See 1

18++As James tells us belief is actions. Paul acted out Torah which includes Levi’s priesthood and all physical Temple services.

** Paul also exampled Torah at Heb.7 which tells us that the Melkizedeq Priesthood was 1st and was greater – Look it up – do the study (Acts 17:11)

19++Again Paul says the only thing he taught was resurrection Act 24:15;20-21

** Oh really? Square that with Acts, Rom., Eph., Gal., Cor., Heb., Tim. & etc.

20++Paul says he has not sinned against the Law of the Jews …NOR AGAINST THE TEMPLE ….Acts 25:8

** No; again you are delusional reading in what you want to see – it says Act 25:8 ‘While he answered for himself,’ … – yet not against any of these

21++If Paul understood Hebrews to be saying what this article says it is saying then he (Paul) is a liar and a hypocrite and if ALL THE ELDERS of the 1st century understood Hebrews to be saying what this article says then they are ALL LIARS AND HYPOCRITES!!!! and that is a major problem because that means all their writings are null and void and should be removed and burnt!

** “this article” that you reference but do not identify ??? – There you go again – “** Bingo!!! @ “Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah” – And that’s the point you have no understanding of the division of Laws, Priesthoods or Covenants from Torah – You insist that nothing has changed – You deny the change back to the Melkizedeq Priesthood – You admit to a lack of understanding – Yet you assert & project as if you do – but not only that you defend against this knowledge (ergo this exercise) and seek to project that to others?” See 8

22++Or – Like Peter warned those who do not understand Torah will twist Pauls writings and the rest of Scripture to their own destruction! I believe this to be the case.

** Now you even twist what the text says – with the word twist still stuck in your mouth – but even so “ those who do not understand Torah” – **There you go again – “** Bingo!!! @ “Understand that we are misunderstanding Hebrews because of lack of understanding of Torah” quote you unquote – And that’s the point you have no understanding of the division of Laws, Priesthoods or Covenants from Torah – You insist that nothing has changed – You deny the change back to the Melkizedeq Priesthood – You admit to a lack of understanding – Yet you assert & project as if you do – but not only that you defend against this knowledge (ergo this exercise) and seek to project that to others.” See 8

23++You are correct sacrifice cannot be carried out today because the Temple does not stand. However. Messiah’s death did not bring the Levitical priesthood to a end just as Torah and all its “regulations” have not come to a end and neither are they changed. We simply cannot perform them until the Temple is built and the Torah once again becomes the constitution and legal code of Israel. None the Torah fir this world is “changed” or can EVER be changed.

** “None the Torah fir this world is “changed” or can EVER be changed.” – 1st off this sentence does not make complete sense – But even so – what is this?;

Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, *until* Shiloh come

Ex 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may *consume* them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Num 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel *instead* of all the firstborn

Jos 5:2 At that time YHWH said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the *second* time.
BECAUSE
Jos 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had *not circumcised*. (hint this ID’s the 40yr wandering)

This all evidences and demonstrates a ‘change of/in/to’ Torah

You say – @”We simply cannot perform them until the Temple is built”

And where is this proviso in Torah – Hmm?

24++David’s covenant of the kingship over Israel is not changed it is in effect it is just not practiced.

** That my friend is the flimflam of double-speak – either forever is unbroken forever or its not!

Again – 1st off; there was no David descendant on the throne even in Yahshua’s time of Roman occupation and even before that going back to the Babylonian Captivity – That’s why Yahshua said ‘your house is left to you desolate’ (Mt 23:38) – As in ‘not functional’ – Not made desolate ; but already was. Only a Kingdom has a King – A House does NOT! – Hint; Yahshua understood that by His own decree. This would include the defunct Levitical usurped Priesthood. Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38.

25++When the Temple was destroyed in Daniels day the neither David’s covenant not the covenant of Levi changed both were in effect and were reinstated as soon as Israel had Torah as its constitution.

** Hellooo – Neither have been reinstated – “as soon as Israel” What? Re-became an autonomous Kingdom??? That has never happened! Even so; You’re confusing the Jews as being Israel – Most of Israel’s 12 Tribes are still lost even today – That’s why the Jews still pray prayer #10 of the Amidah – Besides that Gen.49:10 had not happened in Daniels day – They were still under Torah Levitical primacy which they still were not following – even to this day.

26++Every inheritance mentioned in Torah is in effect.

** Every inheritance? This is not so. The Melkizedeq Priesthood was to go to the 1st born of all tribes; “if” they kept the Covenant – Read Ex.32; they did not – Then read Num.3:12 – Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38.

And – they broke Gen.17 Melkizedeq Circumcision with the Gold Calf (Ex.32/Rom.2:29) never practiced again for the rest of Torah (Jos.5:5) – But then they got Jos.5:2 a 2nd Levitical Circumcision & what does Heb.7:11 say?

27++The land promise/covenant is in effect Gaza and the west bank are ours and much more land no matter the fact that other occupy this land at this moment.

** Well it had to happen; we finally reached a point of relative agreement

28++ even Judah though he believes he is the only owner because we were dispersed (just as levitical priesthood is) he is wrong and when Messiah comes back and “establishes” Torah as constitution all us lost children will have what belings to us.

** @ “…we were dispersed (just as levitical priesthood is)…” – Well well you finally admit that there was/is a lapse – I thot you said ‘forever/continually’ that my friend means no break without end – So which is it – You can’t have it both ways!

29++ Right after we are told that Messiah is a Priest in the order of Melchizedek Heb 7:11-28

** This has happened present tense already – Read Heb 7:12; 21, 1Ptr.2:9, etc.

30++Heb 8:1-7 Tells us in present tense that there are priests offering sacrifice in accordance/obedience to/under the authority of Torah at that time AFTER Messiahs death.

Vs 4 then tells us though Messiah is a Priest or High Priest of the Melchizedek order He CANNOT officiate on earth.

because? Their are priests who offer sacrifices according to The Law/Torah.

** Your dysfunction is showing again – Now go read Heb 8:6 thru 10 – ‘But now’ … this pertains to the New Covenant – that relates to Jer.31:31-33 enacted by Yahshua at Lk.22:20

31++Messiah officiates in the Heavenly Temple

** How quick you forget the model prayer – ‘on earth as it is in …’ -where? And Mk.1:15 And saying (Yahshua v:14), The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of Yah is at hand …

32++Levi officiates Olam in the earthly

** Again – do the study of ‘olawm’ Do the research; ‘olam’ neither only or always means our concept of ‘forever’, it more correctly means ‘to a point out of mind’. – Flash – Yahweh is not limited to your concepts and your preconceived ideas (Prv.25:2) – See 3

33++Messiah made this covenant with Levi by His own blood Jer 33:14-22 He cannot and will not break His own Word.

** Did you forget? Jer 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall **execute judgment and righteousness in the land**.

Yahshua said ‘your house is left to you desolate’ (Mt 23:38) – As in ‘not functional’ – Not made desolate ; but already was. Only a Kingdom has a King – A House does NOT! – Hint; Yahshua understood that by His own decree. This would include the defunct Levitical usurped Priesthood. Now go read 1Kgs 9:5-8 & compare to Mt 23:38. – See 24

34++That is the reason not once do you see Messiah take over Temple duty before or after His resurrection.

** Really? The reason Yahshua Messiah did not take over Temple duty – Is the same reason the Essenes went to Qumran – The temple duty and those that had usurped the legitimate Levitical Priesthood were corrupt.

35++ Nothing of Torah is changed.

** Repetition will never make a lie a truth – neither will ignoring the details of the truth make you honest.

Again we have come full circle; yet again – “Tell me if “All Torah stands” – Would that include Gen.49:10?” ie ‘change’ How ’bout Ex.32 or Num.3:12 & Num.8:15-17 not to mention Jos.5:5 – These all demonstrate ‘change’ and the reason for ‘change’ much as Ezk.20:10-25 tells it and Heb.7:11-12 evidences. See 1

36++ The death penalty for adultery stands even though we do not and cannot carry this instruction out until……the Torah is the constitution and law code of Israel then and only then will stoning for adultery be carried out. In the heavenly court this “law” still stands and anyone who carries out this sin will receive their due punishment when Messiah returns (the hail stoning will be the punishment)

** Marriage is a Melkizedeq issue – It has the 4 points of a Melkizedeq Covenant 1] Proposal, 2] Agreement, 3] Blood Ratification & 4] A Covenant Confirming meal – (aka – the reception)

@ “…then and only then…” When is that? You obviously have something in mind but you do not spell it out – But leave everyone hanging – Is it because you are unclear on the concept yourself?

Then you speak of “In the heavenly court” – There is no marriage in Heaven (Mk.12:25)

Even so Yahshua showed mercy to the 1 caught in adultery (John 8:4-11). The same mercy you want to be shown concerning your sins that deserve death. Remember the sand writing / without sin thing?

37++This Law is not practiced on earth but it is binding and still in effect.

** You do make a valid point – BUT – only as it relates to Marriage originally being Melkizedeq law

38++Just as is the “laws” regarding Levi and his priesthood.

** 1st off the actual man ‘Levi’ never knew his descendants would have a Priesthood (Gen.49:5), Then You are trying to marry apples and oranges – Heb.7:11 – the “laws” regarding the Plan ‘B’ Levitical priesthood came under the Levitical priesthood law after breaking the Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Covenant (Ex.32/Num.3:12) and were ‘not good’ (Ezk.20:25).

39++No person alive today who is not of Levi can receive a “tithe” or “first fruit” etc etc and there is zero evidence in Scripture including 1st century writings of anyone besides levi being legally allowed to receive these commanded gifts.

**Then what do you make of Paul a Benjamite gathering and taking proceeds to Jerusalem believers most who were Not Levites or Peter a Jew concerning Ananias & Sapphira or Act 4:36 Joses a Levite laying money down a the Apostles feet most of whom were Jews – ??? , etc.

40++Anyone not of levi who then accepts these gifts knowing this information commits a act of rebellion and will receive the due punishment on Messiah’s return.

** That’s a bold absolute statement – The problem with absolute statements is they are rarely absolute. There may be those who lived and died under the Levitical priesthood who will receive what you say for that reason – But – You forget (or more correctly – refuse) the Melkizedeq Priesthood standing we as believers in Yahshua all are called to (1Ptr.2:9/Heb.7:12/Rev.1:6) –

41++Just Davids kingdom and throne are not with us today no body from any other blood line may legally sit on his throne and anyone who does so will face YHVH’s judgement.

** Again a bit unintelligible – So now you admit “David’s kingdom and throne are not with us today” – You must have gotten tired – We tend to tell the truth when that happens – don’t ya love it? – I seem to remember you trying to wrench the point of ‘olawm’ – forever/continual – (means without lapse) – Remember – So which is it?

42++David’s promise/covenant is along side Levi’s and are bond together in Scripture and are both binding and in effect today regardless wether the Palace and the throne or the Temple and the altar stand at this point in time.

** Again a bit unintelligible – Even so; concerning ‘David’s promise/covenant is along side Levi’s and are bond together’ …

See 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, 17, 21, 22, 24, 25, 32, 33, 35, 41

43++Torah is timeless.
**Strictly speaking; this is a correct statement. However – It may feel real good to make that statement – But to do so necessarily includes knowing and agreeing with what is contained and evidenced in and about Torah – to do anything else and demand it to be so; is just plain ignorant.

Torah includes the awareness of ‘change’ of a then coming Messiah Gen.49:10. Torah includes the awareness of a #1 Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Priesthood ‘changed’ to a #2 Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood because of Melkizedeq Covenant break Ex.32/Num.3:12. Torah includes the awareness of un-Circumcision because of the same Melkizedeq Covenant break of Ex.32/Num.3:12-Jos.5:5. And many other particulars. Torah also allows for the ‘change’ back to the original #1 Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Priesthood (Heb.7:12) thru Yahshua (Gen.49:10) our Melkizedeq High Priest (Ps.110:1-4/Heb.7:11-21).

It would benefit you and others to study ‘Olam’ translated ‘forever’ and ‘Dowr’ translated ‘generations’. You can start with;

https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/olam/

And remember Acts 17:11 – Search the Scriptures daily to see if these things are so. For; Repetition will never make a lie a truth – neither will ignoring the details of the truth make you honest.
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Daniel – I probably shouldn’t help you – BUT – you for got to bring up Jer 33:20 (???) an oversight?

Jer 33:20 Thus saith YHWH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; …Jer 33:21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

What most do not factor in is the proviso of 1Kgs 9:5-8 compared to the confirmation of Mt 23:38 – AND – the whole crucifixion event that included the Sun going dark at high noon – the verbiage is – If **ye** can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, … That never precludes YHWH doing so Himself for a dedicated purpose – Along with the Temple veil torn in two showing an end to the already defunct Levitical Priesthood just like the so called High Priest tearing his vestment showing the same ineligibility. (Mt 26:65, Mt 27:51, Mk 14:63, Mk 15:38, Lk 23:45)

Please do follow Acts 17:11 – Follow Yah’s Truth (Prv.25:2)

Deuteronomy Dis-Connect

Deuteronomy Dis-Connect

The Rabbis (thus most everyone else) consider “Mt. Sinai” and “Mt. Horeb” to be two different names of the same mountain

And this from the same guys that deny Yahshua, deny Yahshua ever came as Messiah or will come back again, deny the Melkizedek Priesthood, that gave us the contrive of ‘Oral Torah’, the 613 Lores, the flubdubbery of Talmud and all the rest, Who uphold the Levitical laws, yet usurp the legitimate Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood to install themselves; 1st as Pharisees turned to modern day Rabbis; as upholders of Torah that uphold many others works that undermine and replace Torah. And this is what most defer to???

1st off the Christian Church defers to the Orthodox/Rabbinic Jews in many matters of understanding – what is the law, what is Sabbath, what are the Feastdays, etc. that they as a whole reject. Then there are the Messianic (et. al) that for the most part came from the Christian Church that likewise still defer to the Orthodox/Rabbinic Jews in matters of these same understandings that they now project, protect & embrace. That more than once has escalated into accepting ever more increasing Orthodoxy and/or Rabbinics. That at some few points go on to reject Paul, then reject certain NT books, then reject Yahshua and then ultimately the NT altogether and convert to Judaism or worse – Atheism

This is a Huge mistake – based on faulty intel, premise and logic. It has been suggested that we take issues to a ‘granular level'; actually I applaud this notion for it well mirrors what has been said about intelligence – that is; it involves the ability to make increasingly finer distinctions -But; we must connect those finer distinctions (the grains) in a continuity of evidence that tracks each issue/topic to its logical conclusion being faithful to the fully-accounted-for truth of that given matter.

Consider this point – Tho “Sinai” and “Horeb” has been asserted as two names of the same mountain – This by Torah just flat Cannot be so. Case in point, there are those that continually assert;

Dt.29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which YHWH commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

As some kind of Ah-ha gotcha issue. To the untrained and unstudied that go along to get along – Based on the accepted faulty Jewish reinforced default premise; this sounds like it ID’s Sinai even tho it says Horeb (???). This is a disregard of critical evidence. For there is corroborating evidence;

Ex 32:34 Therefore now go, lead <nachah> the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee:

05148. hxn nachah, naw-khaw’ – a primitive root; to guide; by implication, to transport (into **exile**, or as colonists):–bestow, bring, govern, guide, lead (forth), put, straiten.

What then is this there for? Nothin’? Everything in Torah is the record of evidence that we must heed as direction and cannot be summarily disregarded.

lead <nachah> the people into ‘exile’ where? The same place? That makes no sense! They had just broken the most monumental groundbreaking Covenant in all of Biblical history. Where Yahweh actually came down and spoke in the audible hearing of a nation of people. What does make sense is separating them from the scene of their great covenant sin to another place, hence Ex.32:34

Ex 33:6 And the children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments by the mount Horeb.

Confirmation that they had arrived at a different place – So then ‘IF’ they would have kept the Melkizedeq Sinai Covenant would they have needed to go to a different place to receive the same thing that they had just Broke? No! They were to remove themselves from all vestiges & ties to that ‘Covenant of Promise’ breech (See – https://torahwithoutrabbinics.wordpress.com/books) – They were no longer Melkizedeq Priests (Ex.19:5-6) this included Aaron & his sons (Ex.32:10/Num.3:12).

As I repeatedly state there is a huge difference between being a Nation ‘of’ (Melkizedeq) Priests and being a Nation ‘with’ (Levitical) Priests

This removal from the base of Mt.Sinai to Mt. Horeb is the initial separation response that permanently barred all Israelites from the Melkizedeq Priesthood until the time of Yahshua (Gen.49:10). The re-delineation of the terms of the Melkizedeq Mt.Sinai Covenant mixed with added law at Mt. Horeb was now under the Levitical Priesthood (Heb.7:11/Num.3:12/Ex.24:12/Ex.32:10; 40:13-15)

This Ex.34 Horeb ‘re-delineation’ of terms was more akin to the enactment of law that could be added to and did not have (or any later subsequent) – a Proposal, an Acceptance, a Blood Ratification or a Covenant Confirming Meal nor did any of the other subsequent so-called covenants under the Levitical Priesthood as you see with the Melkizedeq Mt.Sinai Book of the Covenant (BotC – Ex.19:5-24:8-11) – Please be honest and check (Acts 17:11).

Dt.29:1 then underscores the separation point; placing a distinction between the Melkizedeq Sinai and the Levitical Horeb and all other subsequent enactments and additions under the Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood instituted directly because of the Melkizedeq (BotC) Covenant-breach of Ex.32.

This ‘addition to’, all of it; under the Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood allowed by YHWH, carries with it the innate understanding that YHWH can go back to the original Plan ‘A’ Melkizedeq Priesthood with the coming of His Son Yahshua; WITHOUT any further formal human involved proceedings.

YHWH’s permissive ‘fix’ of the Plan ‘B’ Levitical Priesthood was ‘glorious’ (2Cor.3:11); certainly better than complete annihilation (Ex.32:10).

Business Card Idea

Business Card Idea

Pertaining to Keeping the Sabbath – We all should print these to give out to Sunday keeping Christians – Family, Friends and Acquaintances – with the most basic yet overlooked points of the NT

Please chime in with your ideas and inclusions

***
Isa.56:3-5 with Rom.11:25, Eph.2:11-12, Heb.4:2, Acts 15:19-21

With all the 12 Tribe verses of the NC/NT

Mt.19:28, Lk.22:30, Acts 26:7, Eph.2:11-12, Jms.1:1, Rev.21:12

Passover Midnite Abib 14th

Passover Midnite Abib 14th

There are a number of Yahshua Meshiyach believing Messianic Assemblies and Groups; that along with the vast majority of Yahshua Meshiyach rejecting Jewish groups ignore the Torah instruction and evidence of what amounts to the 1st and only Melkizedeq Passover in the entire Bible – With the exception of 1; Yahshua’s last Passover of Mt 26:; Mr 14:; Lk 22:; Jn 13:; 1Cor 10:; 1Cor 11:

They teach they are following Torah; yet they insist to eat Passover on Abib/(Nisan) 15th. These group’s in question completely ignore the instruction; in favor of their own imagination.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even (the beginning of the Gen./Hebrew day) is YHWH’s passover.
:vs
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto YHWH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Simple enough; the 1 Day of Passover (Abib 14) contrasted to the 7 Days of UlvBrd. Starting Abib 15.

Then there is the evidence of Ex.12.

The question to ask is; ‘where’d they get the blood’?

We’ll start with the Abib 14 Midnite Passing Over the ‘Death Angel’ and work backwards with the events that had to precede that event.

They had to ‘strike/brush’ their doorpost with blood to be ‘Passed Over'; the same blood of the Passover lamb slain as it changed from the 13th Sunset to the 14th Sundown ie the beginning Night of that 24hr day which precedes Midnite of that same 14th.

They were to completely eat the Lamb burning anything leftover; on that same 14th preceding the Midnite Passing Over the ‘Death Angel’ at Midnight Abib 14.

Then they were to stay in the homes till morning (still Abib 14)

Messianics will excuse not keeping the Torah instruction pointing to various means including the Jews who do not revere Yahshua and the events of the NT/NC. Yes, Yahshua was crucified at the close of the 14th; BUT what they fail to account for is that Yahshua ate Passover at the proper time (the night beginning the 14th) and inaugurated what is called ‘the last supper’ (still the same 14th) which with the Bread and the Wine ushered in the New Covenant (Jer.31:31-33/Lk.22:19-20) as the ongoing ‘Covenant Confirming Meal’.

They fail to realize that it is a mistake to misapply the NT (as well the TaNaK) to alter Torah to another conclusion. But that seems to be par for the course; a misapply among misapplications looking to the Levitical minded application push by a usurping Rabbinic Torah illegal replacement – perpetrated by the post Babylonian Captivity polluted ‘religion of the Jews’.

Then there is physical ‘Circumcision’ – Pushed by the Jewish, Rabbinic, anti-Missionary and Messianic (et. al) alike. Believed to be attached to Gen.17; when it is Not. Jos.5:2 evidenced by Jos.5:5 makes that point abundantly clear if you understand what you’re looking at – See; ‘Why Melkizedeq?’, ‘Dropped the Ball’, ‘The Jos.5:5 Connection’ & ‘Melkizedeq Circumcision’.

Replaced by ‘Circumcision of the Heart’ which is ‘Circumcision’ from the inside out (Ezk.11:19; 36:26-27; Dt.10:16; 30:6/Rom.2:28-29) instead of it being pressed into service from the outside in.

Note – Dt.10:16; 30:6 are during the 40yr ‘un-Circumcision’ evidenced by Jos.5:5.

Php 3:3 For **we are the circumcision**, which worship Yah in the spirit, and rejoice in Messiah Yahshua, and have no confidence in the flesh.

But to claim ‘Heart Circumcision’ is to attest to keeping the Covenant – to attest to keep the Torah – letting the Torah say what Torah says the way Torah says it – which most clearly do not do – Most keep the Rabbinics of the Rabbis which is itself an imagined reconstitution of a usurped, over-run & gutted Levitical priesthood replacement; that completely ignores the resurgence fullness of the Melkizedeq Priesthood (Heb.7:11-12).

By 2Cor.3:11 the Melkizedeq Priesthood still retains several Torah issues; including Ex.12 *Passover* – Yahweh’s service is about freedom – Yahshua came to set the captives free – Both from ‘Sin’ and the rigors of being under Levitical law (or Rabbinic, etc. or any other)

Rest assured that Melkizedeq law tho freer still includes Sabbath, Feastdays, Clean Meats, Commandments, Redeeming of the 1st Born, Circumcision of the Heart and others (including NT) considerations.

See – ‘Across the Board’